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1967 Kennedy Half Dollar - Wrong Planchet / Off-Metal Error

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 Posted 10/24/2012  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
contact me at mdia1 at aol dot com. -- Mike Diamond
I altered the address to keep the spam bots from finding it.

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 Posted 10/24/2012  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broken-Coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to see the results published in Coin World's "Collectors Clearinghouse" as I was somewhat curious about the sharper strike details on a very thin planchet, and concluded that since I don't know the die pressure used and the distance between the dies when there is no planchet, maybe there was extra pressure used on the hammer die.
I have seen photos (may have been a past issue of "Collectors Clearinghouse") of Quarters struck on Dime stock resulting in weak strikes, but don't recall viewing any Half Dollar on Dime Stock photos...
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 Posted 10/24/2012  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bmanofnbc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure about the error but the color looks like 40% silver and I have found them with that green corrosion before.
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 Posted 10/24/2012  10:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheCentMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've gone ahead and contacted Mr. Diamond and will hopefully be sending my coin to him to get his professional opinion. Let's get this mystery solved!
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 Posted 10/25/2012  3:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bman

After looking at it again it does look like 40% silver.
And yes you are correct about some of them having what seems
to look like verdi. Might not actually be verdigras but a form
of either chemical or environ. damage. The actual composition
of this coin would help out greatly first. Is a missing clad
possible ? Just the silver and no other metals ? or vice versa. Just a thought. I'm sure Mike is on the correct path
and will figure it out.
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 Posted 10/25/2012  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At this point, it cannot be silver since it failed the tissue test. The composition will remain unknown until someone performs some physical tests on it, it sounds like Mike Diamond has that covered. I also second Mike's comments about the puzzling nature of this coin, the lack of metal flow and design weakness on a planchet that is significantly underweight is quite odd.
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 Posted 10/31/2012  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have determined that this coin is a fake, and a very unusual one. First of all I can confirm the very low weight (6.9g on my quickie scale). Average diameter is 29.70mm, almost a full millimeter shy of the normal 30.61mm. Reeding is essentially full. The core is black in color. The coin has a very dull, flat ring. The obverse and reverse design appear to have been struck by authentic dies.

The reeding looks quite crude and that's the key to what transpired. The first step was the removal of the original reeding and part of the design rim from two half dollars. The second step was grinding off the reverse face from one half dollar, removing the metal up to the obverse clad layer. The third step was grinding off the obverse face of the second half dollar, removing the metal down to the reverse clad layer. The two clad layers were then affixed to a core of base metal. The final step was giving it a set of false reeding. Some of the base metal (which might have been semi-molten at the time) dripped onto the reverse face where it solidified as two droplets that respectively lie below, and partly overlap, the two Ls of DOLLAR. The droplets stand above the field, proving that these were deposited after the strike.

It's a very clever way to construct a fake off-metal error. Why it was done I cannot say.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 10/31/2012  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bmanofnbc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
so, it's a fake error made from 2 real coins?
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 Posted 10/31/2012  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes. Genuine on the outside, fake on the inside. A similar coin was recently discussed on the Collector's Universe forum:

(046) Not Allowed - Auto-Removed &threadid=871137
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 10/31/2012  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheCentMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From my understanding, to dumb down what he said: 2 Real Silver Kennedy's were taken then shaved down until there was no silver. They were then "glued" together with another type of metal (the blackish coloring metal) then struck by (what appears to be) authentic 1967 Kennedy half dollar Dies. Correct?
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 Posted 11/01/2012  07:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Totally incorrect. Read my description again. Another possibility is that one half dollar was cut in half horizontally and then each half had the 80% Cu/20% Ag core ground off as far as the clad layer. Then the two clad layers were affixed to a false core of base metal. After that, crude fake reeding was applied to the edge.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 11/01/2012  08:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheCentMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, its kind of hard to understand what you said. So 2 coins were taken and shaved down (1 on the obverse, 1 on the reverse) then glued together with metal? There was no re-striking involved correct? I don't understand how the outside isn't silver if it was just 2 coins glued together. If they were real Kennedy's they would have been silver right?
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 Posted 11/01/2012  08:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would assume that the clad layers are 80% silver and 20% copper. The " tissue test" isn't particularly trustworthy. When I did the tissue test, your coin looked pretty much the same as a comparison silver-clad half dollar.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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United States
162 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2012  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheCentMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmm, weird. It showed up black and featureless every time I did the tissue test on it whereas my silver Kennedy's were white and I could see their faces through the tissue instead of a black blob.
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