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Old Coins - Obverse And Reverse Sides Off By A Few Degrees?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 4,997Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2013  09:03 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Demarco Bishopp to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Okay, let me try to explain. With modern coins the obverse and the reverse always matches up perfectly. You spin a coin 360 degrees and the design on both sides will be perfectly upright.

I've noticed that with some of my old British coins, especially ones minted before 1880s that sometimes the obverse and reverse sides are slightly off. What I mean is that I can hold the coin and look at one side the right way up and then spin the coin in my fingers and I will be looking at the design on the other side but it will be as though the coin has turned a few degrees because the design is slightly sideways. Does this make sense?

I'm wondering whether this is simply a product of earlier, less precise minting methods or whether I've been had by some Chinese fakes.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20166 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2013  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Subject comes up all the time. When people put a coin in a 2x2 or an Album where you can see both sides, many times they think they did something wrong. The fromt is straight up and the reverse is tilted. Sometimes a real lot. Certain US coins are famous for that. Mercury dimes and Indian Head Nickels, for example. Some think they found a valuable Mint error. Some books and web sites explaining Mint errors don't even mention this. For example the famous Red Book, starting at page 417 explains errors but no mention of a tilted reverse.
just carl
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2013  09:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Demarco Bishopp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, so it's just a common minting error then. That's a relief.

No pun intended.
Edited by Demarco Bishopp
10/22/2013 09:49 am
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20166 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2013  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suspect that inside the US Mint there is secret organization that has the soul purpose of creating errors in coins and currency. As more amd more people use credit and debit cards, there will be less and less of a necessity for CASH. Therefore to insure a future job, this group of individuals at the Mint have the primary purpose to create, distribute and publicize all errors made. Therefore the creation of the Mint Error Secret Service otherwise MESS.
just carl
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United States
7751 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2013  05:35 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
See rotated dies - hmm, I just checked the CCF glossary and it's not there! MODS? Some coins this is common, others command a premium. I have a neat set of Two Cent Pieces with a full clock set of rotation from 1:00 through 11:00. Generally the ones that are 90, 180 or 270 degrees are the bigger valued error coins.

Another cool variation is mis aligned dies where the obverse and reverse don't quite line up properly for a strike, on side of the coin will look off center while the other side is fine. There is a whole website and subset of collectors in this field - http://www.maddieclashes.com
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Australia
13582 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2013  06:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Once you go far enough back in time, "rotated dies " become the norm rather than the exception. Prior to the invention of the screw press, coins were made by one bloke holding the blank between two hand-held dies, while another bloke whacked the whole thing with a big hammer. In such circumstances, which way around the dies were was more or less random. So for "hammered" coins (basically anything earlier than say AD 1500) there are no die rotation errors, since ther is no such thing as a "normal" die rotation.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Canada
23 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2013  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CasualDave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is what drives me crazy about ancient coins! I usually make sure the face side is level and try not to look at the other side so it won't bother me haha.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20166 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2013  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is what drives me crazy about ancient coins! I usually make sure the face side is level and try not to look at the other side so it won't bother me haha.

Your not the only one that does not look at the Reverse. Ever wonder why almost all the coin errors are about the obverse.
just carl
New Member
United States
43 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MrThom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reason for the obverse to
Have higher % of errors.
IS GRAVITY.
Just an old retired blacksmith and chief engineer for Marriott for 23 years
Pillar of the Community
United States
1048 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I suspect that inside the US Mint there is secret organization that has the soul purpose of creating errors in coins and currency.


Ever the conspiracy theorist, Huh Carl..

(BTW - I contacted one of 'them' to place a Dole sticker on a $100 bill during printing for me..)

However, you may just be partially correct and that group might be letting the errors pass through instead of stopping them..

Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin
My Dansco 7070 type set coin count: 31/76
My Dansco 8176 Eisenhower set coin count: 36/36
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United States
4559 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2021  08:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've sold off all my early U.S. Large cents (I never had that many), but if I recall correctly, nearly half had some degree of obvious rotation.
Edited by tdziemia
02/04/2021 08:58 am
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