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Nikon D810

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 Posted 08/10/2014  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
assuming Sony gives the hooks into their API via WiFi.

Assumption is dangerous; so read on with that in mind. Sony has released all the exif codes so that 3rd party lens makers don't have to back engineer to produce lenses for sony cameras...I had assumed that they have done the same with the codes necessary to produce apps for the cameras
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 Posted 08/12/2014  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just as an FYI, here's a coin I shot using the "flat picture control" setting on the D810--lighting from 2 Jansjo LED lights without any diffusion. This photo was also compiled from 16 individual shots at f8 using Zerene Stacker. The program does all the 'heavy lifting' of scaling and aligning each photo to merge into one sharp image. What I might have spent 1+ hours doing manually I can now do in 5minutes.

Nikon-D810
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 Posted 08/12/2014  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First coin photo I've seen taken with the D810! Very nice as well.

Is the f8 you quoted effective or nominal aperture?
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 Posted 08/12/2014  11:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You posted a pic of this coin before but I can't find it. Can you compare previous shot with this new one?
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 Posted 08/12/2014  11:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks! This is my previous shot with my D300 @ f7.1 using the 60mm micro--no bellows or any converters. Not focus-stacked; a single shot.

Nikon-D810
Edited by DVCollector
08/12/2014 11:51 pm
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 Posted 08/13/2014  01:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Flat control is doing extra compression of dynamic range and reduction of contrast. Looks like the D300 image is sharpened a bit more than the D810. What were the camera settings for the D300? How much in-camera sharpening?
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 Posted 08/13/2014  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The Flat control is doing extra compression of dynamic range and reduction of contrast.

In this case, a little too much because I dialed in -2/3 EV exposure compensation to keep details from blowing out under those Jansjo lights. I discovered that's totally unnecessary on "flat control", but I can recover tonal range pretty well in ACR. What I should be doing is taking a few test shots, checking out the histogram and adjusting to cover the full tonal range.

Quote:
What were the camera settings for the D300? How much in-camera sharpening?

Correction: both pics were shot at f8, but using different lenses. The first one was shot on the Nikkor 60mm micro; the later on the 105 micro. I've found that for coins, the 60 micro resolves more specular highlights on metal objects--it's actually a little distracting. I don't set sharpening in the camera. That's my very last filter in post-processing, so applying curves to luminance and color (I usually work in LAB) doesn't amplify sharpening artifacts.
Edited by DVCollector
08/13/2014 1:11 pm
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 Posted 08/15/2014  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So I finally got around to shooting test pics of single-shot mode vs. Mup mode with the EFCS enabled.
Single-point focus centered on George's left eye. Flat setting, sharpening set to "1" (scale 0-9) No post-processing sharpening, only contrast adjusted.
Both are shot on a rock-solid Gitzo tripod and ball head. I shot at a slow enough shutter to pick up on camera shake from the shutter.
Both shot at 1/6s f14 and ISO 100 so noise is at a minimum. On the EFCS shot, I first pressed the remote to raise the shutter, 5 seconds later I pressed again to start the EFCS/exposure.
At 100% crop, I think you can see the difference the EFCS makes.

Nikon-D810
Edited by DVCollector
08/15/2014 10:14 pm
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 Posted 08/16/2014  12:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, significantly sharper on EFCS so it appears to be working well. Why f14 though? Is that effective or nominal? The 100% pixel sharpness is pretty good so I assume f14 effective. Have you calculated the DLA for the D810? Do you know the pixel pitch?
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 Posted 08/16/2014  01:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Why f14 though? Is that effective or nominal?
I should add--this is was shot with the 105mm VR(off) micro. The aperture is that which is displayed in the viewfinder, and set on the lens. I set the lens to f14 because that's where my own tests indicate that sharpness is maximized, after which blur sets in due to diffraction around the aperture blades.
The sharpness boost is enough for me to consider enabling the EFCS whenever 100% crop sharpness is critical.
Edited by DVCollector
08/16/2014 01:29 am
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 Posted 08/16/2014  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since f14 is well into diffraction-limited territory for the D810 sensor, the actual improvement is probably quite a bit better than what you're showing. That is good news. To really show the improvement you need to use a lens that is diffraction-limited at f7.5 at the image magnification.

I'm curious why you went with the D810 if not to get the added sharpness due to removal of the AA filter and use of EFCS?
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 Posted 08/16/2014  2:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Since f14 is well into diffraction-limited territory for the D810 sensor, the actual improvement is probably quite a bit better than what you're showing.

Can you explain to me how lens sharpness is related to the diffraction on the sensor--versus diffraction created by the lens/aperture blades? I'm actually not wrapping my mind around that. My choice for f14 is based on my own testing--and scrutinizing those minute details at 100%. While I have read some tests which indicate maximum sharpness is achieved around f5.6, my own tests suggest I can take the aperture higher. After all, macro lenses are designed to be stopped down. Just for fun, I'll re-shoot the non-EFCS/EFCS test I did @ f7 and you can see the results.


Quote:
I'm curious why you went with the D810 if not to get the added sharpness due to removal of the AA filter and use of EFCS?
You tackle macro subjects differently than I do, but I can appreciate your methods and results. I upgraded my D300 for a number of reasons. Not to make a huge list, but they include:

  • Rich color bit depth and extended dynamic range over the D300

  • Image quality at ISO 64--this is really amazing!

  • High ISO and lower noise performance--another huge benefit when shooting nature/architecture in low light--esp. hand-held.

  • I already knew about "flat picture control" before I bought the camera and it solved a continual problem to shooting day-lit scenes

  • The quieter/softer shutter produces noticeably less shake than either my D300, or as I'm told, the D800E. I already see the benefits in hand-held shooting, feeling less jar when I focus/shoot on close subjects.

  • Ability to crop way down from a 36mp image and still retain good detail. Using high-quality lenses and good technique, this has already proven its worth.

  • And the sensor is clearly sharper, even when images are sized down to D300 resolution. It's definitely using the full potential of my lenses.

  • Edited by DVCollector
    08/16/2014 4:08 pm
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     Posted 08/16/2014  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


    Quote:
    Can you explain to me how lens sharpness is related to the diffraction on the sensor--versus diffraction created by the lens/aperture blades? I'm actually not wrapping my mind around that. My choice for f14 is based on my own testing--and scrutinizing those minute details at 100%. While I have read some tests which indicate maximum sharpness is achieved around f5.6, my own tests suggest I can take the aperture higher. After all, macro lenses are designed to be stopped down. Just for fun, I'll re-shoot the non-EFCS/EFCS test I did @ f7 and you can see the results.


    The limit at which diffraction starts to soften the image on the sensor (DLA) is independent of the lens, and only depends on the pixel pitch. DLA is the aperture at which the first null in the diffraction pattern ("airy disk") lands at the edges of the closest adjacent pixels. For smaller apertures, the main lobes of the airy disks start to merge, and pixel-pixel contrast starts to degrade. At an aperture half of the DLA the airy disks are centered at twice the pixel pitch.

    Adding a lens to the discussion is more complex. A perfect lens is easy to analyze. Since it has no aberrations it is by definition diffraction-limited at all apertures, and interactions between the lens aperture and camera are ideal. But if the lens is not diffraction-limited its optimum aperture becomes important. If the optimum aperture is larger than the DLA, then it is best to operate the lens at the DLA to simultaneously optimize depth of field and sharpness. This is often the case for lower magnifications, as the effective aperture is larger than for higher magnifications (fe=fn*(m+1)).

    For the case of your 105VR, at around 1:1.1 you found the optimum aperture to be f14. This is an 87% reduction vs the DLA of the D810 (f7.5) so will result in enough diffraction blur to reduce the sensor linear resolution by 46%, from 36MP to less than 20MP. The bleed-over of the airy disks will reduce the sharpness of the image at 100% pixel level significantly.

    If you re-take the images at f7, it may or may not improve the sharpness, and it actually might degrade it since the lens will be aberration-limited at f7.

    Regarding the question about why you went for he D810, for some reason I thought you already had a D800 and were buying the D810 as an upgrade. I fully understand the upgrade from D300 even if you don't intend to use EFCS often.








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     Posted 08/16/2014  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

    Quote:
    DLA is the aperture at which the first null in the diffraction pattern ("airy disk") lands at the edges of the closest adjacent pixels. For smaller apertures, the main lobes of the airy disks start to merge, and pixel-pixel contrast starts to degrade...
    Wow, nteresting--very ! I'll give this some more thought, but generally I'm mostly judging the quality of my photos by the overall "look" and important details. Sometimes I'm also doing hands-on testing of my lenses so I don't screw things up too bad. I do 'pixel peep' quite a bit in Photoshop too.
    Edited by DVCollector
    08/17/2014 12:55 am
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     Posted 08/17/2014  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

    Quote:
    For the case of your 105VR, at around 1:1.1 you found the optimum aperture to be f14.
    One more note: in the case of the 105VR, I just finished a slew of test shots, with everything dialed-in to the test subject (including micro AF calibration). With EFCS enabled, image sharpness is considerably better at every aperture/shutter speed. In fact, f11 @ 1/30 w/EFCS is the sharpest of any shot from f7.1 @ 1/80 up to f20 @ 1/10. On my 60mm micro, the best result is f9 w/EFCS @ 1/30. Quite obviously, EFCS reduces shake even at 1/80s--that surprised me. These were shot ~1:1 ISO 100--your results may vary to mine.

    These are the kind of 'rubber hits the road' tests that convince me I'll use EFCS for macro whenever possible.
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