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 Replies: 33 / Views: 8,586 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1454 Posts |
Quote:
there are no premiums on silver bars...
Only a premium when you buy them from a dealer. "This is an OLD silver bar"
Bullcarp...
Silver bullion is silver bullion, it's worth spot + if you are a dealer, spot - if you are a consumer.
Don't fall into the trap that people tell you. silver bars are silver bars period... In my opinion, this is patently false. If the individual who wrote this is speaking from experience, I would advise him to get a new LCS or sell online. Simply go on ebay, as Denco stated, and one will find people frequently paying premiums for generic silver of apocryphal provenance. The majority of the OP's bars were produced by well known and trusted names. He would have little problem selling these on ebay for far beyond spot. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
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Your opinion, clearly ........you do not understand the silver bar market and should not be telling people as such that their semi valuable bars are only worth scrap. A 1998 matte finish Kennedy is just worth $3.13 for .15oz of silver, an 1893S Morgan is just 3/4oz of silver and worth only $16.36 Baseball cards are just ink and paper. yes it IS my opinion, also the opinion of all the coin dealers I have talked to. (which is maybe 50). There are collectors for everything. And your statement is partly BS, I didn't say anything about coins or collector baseball cards, you lumped that in to try and add insult and make me appear foolish. I was talking about BULLION, nothing else. May I ask, are you one of those people who collect bullion bars and have paid more then spot price for them? Yours and a few other responses seem to me sound like they came from bullion collectors who have an investment in keeping the thing alive. If you are not a bullion collector then please ignore my previous comment. To me this kind of goes along the lines of a recent article I read on Slab labels, first strike, early strike, special labels etc... There is a market that has grown up around this, the TPG's make more money by creating these labels, then consumers pay extra for these labels, so it is in their best interest to keep the process going so they don't lose money, basically propping up a truly worthless thing. (The labels not the silver). My post was not meant to be insulting, I apologize if it came across that way. It's odd, because I have some "old?" Engelhards bars, but I don't see them as more then just plain bullion, to sell of someday when silver gets high again. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2019 Posts |
Personally I don't collect bars but if I did I would be looking at the est mintage's as a price guide of sorts for some of these bars. I mean if some of these old pour bars have a mintage of 100 then I could see a high premium on them. Here is a good website on the 10 oz bars and est mintage's etc, no prices though. http://allengelhard.com/definitive-...-10oz-class/Edited by Northerncoins
07/09/2014 12:32 pm
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Valued Member
United States
269 Posts |
@Stampvirgin, when your ready to sell your bars, please PM me first, oh heck just PM me now with a price, no need to wait for the increase, ill pay over spot right now
Putting that aside, it really dosnt matter what you and 50 LCD's think about Bullion prices, Engelhard and a few others carry a premium, period, no if's, but's, they just do, you may not want to pay that premium and thats fine.
The OP asked a question, you gave him a wrong answer just because you dont like paying a premium on bullion, if he had acted on your opinion and sold at around spot he could be hundreds of dollars down on the REAL WORTH of the bars(my opinion)
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Valued Member
United States
456 Posts |
I know there's a lot of people who don't understand or agree with any premium associated with 'old silver bars', but that provides opportunities and advantages to those who do follow the market... whether they're collectors or not. I personally have no idea where Engelhard/JM pour premiums will go in the future, but I'd like to think I have a pretty good grasp of where they are right now. So, when I walk into a coin shop and the dealer who 'doesn't believe' in any silver bar premiums has a 10 oz NTR bar lying next to a 10 oz poured Engelhard and he's asking the same price... it's an easy decision for me. I can say from experience that I've seen dealers at the same show selling the same style of bar at spot + $1 and the other was asking 2x spot.
I took the OP's post as a question of fair market value in the case he/she was looking to sell his/her bars. By doing a little due diligence, you can find that these bars are collectible, and have an appreciable premium when sold directly to collectors, regardless of anyone else's opinion. Even if 99 out of 100 people in the market have the opinion that 'silver is silver', it's relatively easy to make my bar available to the 1 who collects.
Sensible or not, sustainable or not, that's the reality as I see it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts |
Everyone that has commented on this post is correct.
First on the spot price of the Bullion. Not just 50 but probable all coin dealers, pawn shop, and those estate buyers that places ads in the papers. Your bullion's could be proof, hand poured,limited edition, or what have you, they will offer you the same low price. It is not that they don't know the premium, but they know your at their shop to sell.
Today we have e-bay, community forums, auctions houses, and other social media to find buyers. We can locate collectors who are interested in these thing and will pay a premium. So when it is time to sell, one must do a little leg work if wanting top dollars for the items.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
fusion, let me know how many of Englehard bars you want. my LCS has lots of them.. from 1 to 100 oz. They are just silver to him, I guess, because that is how he buys it.
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Valued Member
United States
269 Posts |
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fusion, let me know how many of Englehard bars you want. my LCS has lots of them.. from 1 to 100 oz. They are just silver to him, I guess, because that is how he buys it. I will take any 3oz, 4oz or 7oz bars and I will pay spot plus $10 per oz for them and I'm very serious If he has any fractionals, ie 1/10, 1/2oz prospectors ill pay double spot for them Ill even pay extra for the shipping Edited by Fusion555
07/09/2014 7:49 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
147 Posts |
It isn't just a matter of it being "just bullion" to the dealer, but also to their buyers. I've heard of older hand pours having a collector market, but at the end of the day, is about what their buyers are willing to pay.
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Valued Member
United States
456 Posts |
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I will take any 3oz, 4oz or 7oz bars and I will pay spot plus $10 per oz for them and I'm very serious I'd pay multiples of spot for a 3 oz bar, and many more multiples of spot for a 4 or 7 oz and I'm dead serious... |
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Valued Member
United States
269 Posts |
Quote:
I'd pay multiples of spot for a 3 oz bar, and many more multiples of spot for a 4 or 7 oz and I'm dead serious... Lol me too, just making a point  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1454 Posts |
Quote:
I'd pay multiples of spot for a 3 oz bar, and many more multiples of spot for a 4 or 7 oz and I'm dead serious... Don't hold your breath, guys. I can't imagine a coin dealer staying in business for very long without knowing the value, beyond just spot prices, of the coins he's buying and selling. Bullion truly is just bullion... until it's not.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5417 Posts |
Quote:
there are no premiums on silver bars...
Only a premium when you buy them from a dealer. "This is an OLD silver bar"
Bullcarp...
Silver bullion is silver bullion, it's worth spot + if you are a dealer, spot - if you are a consumer.
Don't fall into the trap that people tell you. silver bars are silver bars period...
The only caveat is that if it has something famous attached to it. Part of a famous shipwreck or something. And then only with provenance.
Again, bullion is bullion period. My opinions is 100% inline with this. The only way that I`d every buy a silver bar with a huge premium is if I knew that I`d be able to flip it for more immediately. But I`ll keep my rant to myself as I don`t think these old, "rare" silver bars will hold their value over time and because there are others who have strong conflicting views. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and everyone has different collecting interests. I went against my gut once by buying a Modern Proof that was certified by ANACS and listed as $40 on the PCGS/NGC/Numismedia Price Guides when infact I can't even sell it for the $6 I paid for it. Dealers aren't fools, they know what they have. I strongly advise against investing in Collector Bullion for any purpose other than your own personal collection as it isn't a investment you will get a return on in the decades to come. When it comes time to sell dealers will hang you out to dry. Just my 2 troy ounces  Edited by zxcccxz
07/09/2014 11:23 pm
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Valued Member
United States
456 Posts |
Quote:
But I`ll keep my rant to myself as I don`t think these old, "rare" silver bars will hold their value over time and because there are others who have strong conflicting views. You could be right. You could be wrong. All we really have are the current market conditions. Quote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. . . I completely agree. Quote:
Dealers aren't fools, they know what they have. Not always the case. I've bought many bars from dealers for very close to spot that I've sold for anywhere from 30-300% profit. There's deals out there. Quote:
I strongly advise against investing in Collector Bullion for any purpose other than your own personal collection as it isn't a investment you will get a return on in the decades to come. Stating this as fact is reckless. You simply don't and can't know that. Again, in general, current market conditions contradict your statement. Does that mean I'm recommending going out and buying only 'collectible bullion'? Of course not. Quote:
When it comes time to sell dealers will hang you out to dry. Just my 2 troy ounces Finally, selling to dealers is one of the worst things someone could do with something that is collectible. Go straight to the collector if you're looking to sell. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1454 Posts |
Quote:
When it comes time to sell dealers will hang you out to dry. Then perhaps the wise thing to do is to resist selling coins to dealers, pawn shops, Webuysilverandgolddotcom, or the like. To me, it's akin to selling your car to a used car salesman. You'll never profit (to the fullest potential) from such a one-sided venture. Always negotiate from a position of strength, as a wise old-pour silver bar collector once quipped.  |
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Replies: 33 / Views: 8,586 |
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Posted 07/09/2014 10:44 am
