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New Fake NGC Slabs Reported More Info And Pictures Added

 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
15847 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2007  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While I haven't seen a recent fake PCGS slab yet, there have been some ruours that one may have turned up. And there are some PCGS look-alike shells coming out of China now that are very similar but instead of having PCGS in the lower right hand corner of th shell they have PCCB, and the letters are a little larger and in a different font. They also do not have the sme type labels as PCGS. Still it is another step closer.
Gary Schmidt
Moderator
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United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2007  12:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I saw this PCGS slab that looks weird to me for some reason, does it look weird to anyone else? http://cgi.ebay.com/1995-W-SILVER-P...EO_W0QQitemZ250195985529QQihZ015QQcategoryZ39488QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2007  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfabustisbetter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it's just a horrible picture; it looks the same as some sold on Teletrade to me.
Member
United States
3242 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2007  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amac44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Where there $$$ & a will China can & will make a good copy of it
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United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2007  1:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess its just the lack of a bar code on the label that looked weird to me
Valued Member
United States
346 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2007  11:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bonham3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
like another mentioned earlier about the NGC
slab. you can see with a loupe or glass the
scales of justice design on the front label.
an outline of the same design shown on the
hologram on the reverse of the slab right before
NGC
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15847 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2007  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The silver eagle slab is perfectly valid. That slab type is PCGS 7. It was used from early 1999 to Feb 2002 and only used for Bullion coins and Modern commems. (I have in my notes that it was used for Classic commems until mid 2001, but I have come to question that and I am trying to confirm it.)

Usually within about two years or so of a slab changing design 80 to 90% of the coins seen in a dealers case will have changed over to the new holder. While I suspect that some of that results from crackouts and some from new coins coming on the market, I suspect a LOT of coins get sent in for reholdering once a major change takes place. A minor change such as a hologram charge may be ignored, but when they went from the green labels to the blue nine years worth of green label slabs disappeared in a year. When the barcode moved from the front of the label to the back it took about two years for the ones without the bar codes on the front to take over. And why did this happen? Because after the change everyone only wanted the new holders. Dealers and collectors would specifically ask when they were pursuing a deal "Are these the new holders?" The discontinued ones traded at a discount. So off they go to the TPG and for $5 you can have them in the new premium holder.
Gary Schmidt
Valued Member
United States
390 Posts
 Posted 12/12/2007  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guido to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, this is a very disturbing trend. But I guess that's why they have individual numbers on the slabs, so you can check them out to see if they are real. But if NGC doesn't let you do it on their website, they need to start. I think one of the strong parts of this forum is the educational aspects of it. Does anyone know where the people selling coins were located? Or how they wanted to get paid? If you use Paypal and have a US address, you may have less chance of them being fake, unless it's been sold to a 2nd party who is now selling them.

Anyone new to collecting may not know about this, but after reading this thread, which I think should be a sticky in the main forum (hint, hint, hint), may save someone from getting ripped off. I know I'll be more careful in the future.

I guess that is one more reason to bid at Heritage Auctions. I hope they double check the numbers to make sure their coins are legitimate. Ebay is always a crapshoot. Some great deals and some bad ones, too.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15847 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2007  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Checking the numbers on the PCGS or NGC websites is only of very limited use. Say I have a roll of fake 09 SVDB cents. I find say two genuine coins in slabs, and make 25 fake slabs each using one or the other genuine slab serial numbers then sell them through various auctions, shows, or to dealers. Most people will accept them without question because they are slabbed. If someone does have doubts and checks the serial number on the website it will come back as confirmed! And the buyer figures it must be good and buys the fake slab.

No, confirming the serial number on the website is no substitute for learning about the coins so that you can authenticate and grade the coins for yourself.

By the way, the potential fake PCGS slab we were waiting on did turn out to be the PCCB slab I mentioned earlier. And to add insurlt to injury the seller just sent the fake coin and not the PCCB slab that it was supposedly in.
Gary Schmidt
Pillar of the Community
United States
973 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2007  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nelrak to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What's up with this slab I don't recall this type of reverse with engraving on the slab and no bar codes and the coin is definitely not a Red based upon my buying experience.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...WA:IT&ih=007
Edited by Nelrak
12/30/2007 10:33 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15847 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2007  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is an NGC 3 (Actually the fourth generation of NGC slab but one of the early ones was not identified at the time the slab book was published and I'm not renumbering everything again.) It was used beginning in either very late 1987 or early 1988 and lasted until late 1989 when the full width hologram was introduced on the back after the counterfeit PCGS slab scare. It's getting hard to find but is still available with some searching.
Gary Schmidt
Pillar of the Community
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United States
2073 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2008  11:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is some useful information on counterfeit NGC holders.

http://www.numisnews.tv/Counterfeit...-Holders.htm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1283 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2008  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USArmyParatrooper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
if this keeps up NGC should allow everyone (not only paid members) to look up certification numbers like PCGS does


You took the words right out of my mouth. Even before this issue I thought it was a bad policy not to make the verification service public. Apparently you can call NGC and do it over the phone, so why not offer it online?

But the problem is it would take me about a minute to look up serial numbers that match on Ebay, Heritage, or countless other websites. I would be interested to know if the numbers on the fake slabs DO match.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1148 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2008  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pattiewhack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
http://cgi.ebay.com/U-S-1787-FUGIO-...PE_W0QQitemZ370012772108QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item370012772108

This NGC slab worries me. I dont know- maybe its perfectly legit. Shouldnt an AU-50 fugio be selling higher?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15847 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2008  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The slab on the fugio is real.

And the serial numbers on the fake NGC slabs DO check out as real on the NGC website.
Gary Schmidt
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