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What Is Flat Field Doubling?

 
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 Posted 02/20/2015  12:27 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Here is a quote from another site: I'm thinking it was Matt Diamond:


Quote:
Flat field doubling : This coin exhibits dual images as a result of having its machine doubled image flattened by the second strike of a proof coin. This is a very common phenomenon on proof coins from 1950-1974.

Second Strike Doubling from a loose die : This is the first of two exceptions to the rule which says that doubling must show on both sides of the coin. This coin exhibits doubling on the anvil die side of the coin only due to the die being loose and turning between strikes. This type of double strike usually only affects proof coins which are normally struck twice.


So the second strike flattens the design and you see only a portion of the first strike. They are not a premium coin, but when you look at coins in the range mentioned you will see these sometimes often. Here are a few.

Some are very light as in the case of this one. You can actually see if better on the coin, than on this image.


Flat field doubling do not reduce the devices like machine damage does. But being they are both from the same method, they are still machine damage.



These are stronger examples. You can see where the devices were flattened next to the rims.


Note how the devices are reduced on classic machine damaged examples we often find. On these the die moved during the strike and reduced the size of the devices on the date.

A couple of images from Pennyman007:


Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
02/20/2015 09:42 am
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 Posted 02/20/2015  02:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good thread Coop.
I know you use Canadian coins in some of your examples so if yoou want to use these thats fine by me.

Flat Field doubling


Notice the beads are doubled but the letters I think may be a victim of Mortar set (missing chrome around the lettering of the die itself) so this coin may have both..
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 Posted 02/20/2015  08:52 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You sometimes see this phenomena on business strike Canadian nickel dollars... which are not struck twice...
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 02/20/2015  10:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you could post an image that would be great. I'm thinking on these it maybe machine damage if the devices are reduced in size.

On Canadian dies, they also plate them sometimes and when the plating peels off, you can see that area on the coin.

(a couple more coins I would like to have images of.)
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
02/20/2015 10:24 am
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 Posted 02/20/2015  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You sometimes see this phenomena on business strike Canadian nickel dollars... which are not struck twice...


Ken Potter thinks Flat-field Doubling isn't limited to Proofs:

http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/...Doubling.htm
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 Posted 02/20/2015  10:46 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some nickel dollar business strikes, they are not zoomed in that much - just so there is no doubt that these are business, and not proof-like, strikes. Send me a PM if you want a higher resolution images. As for the peeling chrome dies, that leaves a totally different raised texture (Hans Zoell originally coined the term mortar set for those). For the 1971 and 1974 examples below, it really does look like flattened Machine Doubling, but again, these are not struck twice...

This feature is extremely common in the 1968 nickel dollars, so much so, that if you want me to send you a pristine example in both proof-like and business strikes for free, let me know in a PM. In return, I would only ask for a prize donation to CCF for future FUN or ANA shows.

1968 business strike (PS - the lines you see are rolling marks - I have currently having a long discussion with Mike Diamond about those, and will be the subject of a future Errorscope article).



1971 business strike



1974 business strike

"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 02/20/2015  12:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those pics look great Coop thanks.
Here is a full obverse and reverse.

1969


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 Posted 02/20/2015  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Flat-field doubling is another name for imperfectly aligned proof strikes:

http://www.error-ref.com/flat-field-doubling/
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 02/20/2015  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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Canada
2632 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2015  02:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Impressive Coop, I'm glad to contribute to your library.


Quote:
imperfectly aligned proof strikes
True enough when you think about it thats all it really is..error-ref.com is my favorite site, tons of info and pics. Thanks for your part in putting that site together mikediamond.
Edited by Alexer
02/21/2015 03:05 am
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 Posted 02/21/2015  09:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ChildOfTheWheat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great post! I now know a bit more about errors!
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 Posted 07/23/2016  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coopthread=

Added this to make searching easier.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
07/23/2016 1:53 pm
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 01/13/2017  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CS-L#1-IA search
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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