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The Eventual Return Of The Silver Dollar...

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GFR3's Avatar
United States
473 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2008  02:43 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add GFR3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Not sure if this is the proper forum, so feel free to move it to where it belongs.

I'm a big (BIG) Ron Paul supporter and, as many of us know, Dr. Paul is the champion for the return to the Gold Standard as our monetary system. I received an email from him sent to all his supporters and want to share a small part of it that I feel most on the forum would appreciate:

"...Nevada, by the way, is known as the Silver State for a reason-its great mining industry produced the precious metal for the beautiful silver dollars minted at the fabled Carson City mint. These constitutional coins, include .775 ounces of silver, in accord with the Coinage Act of 1792. Today these coins, worth $1 in my father's day, have about $14 in silver. That is, the dollar is worth 1/14th of what it was, thanks to the counterfeiting Federal Reserve...."

Obviously, none of that is new information but isn't it nice to see the CC mint, the Coinage Act of 1792, and current silver prices being discussed and shared with such a wide audience? If a few more pieces fall into place and with just the slightest bit of luck, the return of a circulated silver coin in our lifetimes is a possibility. Bad news to the speculators (and bankers!) but wonderful for the collector and average citizen.

I'm not interested in starting a politic debate (those rarely stay civil these days) but where does everyone stand on this issue? Gold standard or fiat system?

What say you?
--Gary
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United States
393 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2008  07:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tnwalker10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that our money should be made of precious metal. Unfortunately, authorities in government are staying up late at night trying to figure out they can possibly make coins cheaper.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2008  10:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love it when the history of our coinage is discussed, especially by a public figure. I feel it is an important part of our history and warms my heart to have it discussed so openly.

As the saying goes, people who forget history are condemned to repeat it. I believe the people that created the Federal Reserve slept in class when the controversy of the United States Bank was discussed.

I would like our money backed by something. Not necessarily a precious metal, but some sort of commodity that has a stable value. Fiat money, IMHO, has done way more harm than good by giving the Federal Reserve too much power over our economy. Am I the only one bothered by the fact that most people feel good when the Fed adjusts rates to manipulate our economy?
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ouzo66's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2008  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ouzo66 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It isn't realistic to physically make coins out of precious metal again. The USD would have to be deflated significantly in order for say a 1 oz. coin of silver to be worth $1. If the gold or silver standard were too return, the only difference is that the existing coins and paper would be backed by metal held by the government instead of a "promise".
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hunter20ga's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2008  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hunter20ga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oversimplification as usual. In Dr. Paul's father's day, gold was pegged at $32 an ounce, and now it is right around $900...almost 30 ties as much. So...which is it? Is the dollar worth 1/14 or 1/30 of its "original" value? The reality is that both are commodities; there are not fixed supply or damand for either, and pegging your currency to either is an exercise in futility that will hamstring the economy and ensure poverty for most of us.
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 Posted 01/21/2008  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since Gold can be flattened to about the thickness of a piece of paper, why not make our currency out of Gold. The thicker, the higher the value. Of course there are those vending machines all over the USA that would have to be changed. Of course forgeries would be significent. How about elemenating all paper money and return to all coinage? Now lets see about buying a car for $25,000 in coins. Oh that is why we have plastic.
All joking of course. The future will not have any currency, coinage, etc. Only plastic cards. It is starting now if you just look around. Visa advertising is indicating that now. I predict the last hold out will be the gum ball machine.
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KurtS's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2008  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I seem to recall the US got itself in real trouble when it tried to peg "real" monetary values to metal prices, which can fluctuate wildly. Notably in the late 1800s when the US coined an excess of silver to reward mining interests, and the ensuing overproduction of silver and other sources of Ag dumped on world markets depressed our currency and contributed to a now-forgotten depression in '73 onward. Admittedly a very complex subject, and I know little. Yet, I'd take a solvent govt. over one chasing after spot metal prices. Our current banking crisis has more to do with poorly securitized loans/investments than being off a metal standard.
Edited by KurtS
01/21/2008 2:05 pm
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Australia
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 Posted 01/21/2008  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bloody unrealistic. What's the point having gold and silver as reserves when it's historically known that the value goes up and down quitely wildly. In fact, what's the point hoarding so much bullions sitting right at the vaults when they don't even make any kind of investment profits?
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
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GFR3's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2008  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GFR3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Valued points all around guys.

IMHO....

I agree with jbuck that the fed was WAY to much power and control over our lives and, even if the current system (or one similar to it) is allowed to continue, they should be reeled in and shown as the crooks they are. Is the solution the Gold Standard? From what I've learned from my studies, yes it absolutley is. That said, I have much to learn and how I feel about this a year or so from now might be different (doubt it, but you never know ) Basiclly its one of those "I don't know how it should be, but I know how it shouldn't be" kinda-dealies.

ouzo66 said:

quote:
It isn't realistic to physically make coins out of precious metal again. The USD would have to be deflated significantly in order for say a 1 oz. coin of silver to be worth $1. If the gold or silver standard were too return, the only difference is that the existing coins and paper would be backed by metal held by the government instead of a "promise".


That's what I've always thought too--and that would lead to a wild ride for quite a number of years before things, arguably, got better. It would be a sacrifice of the present for the benefit of the future and who among us is honestly willing to do such a thing? You? Me? The guy who lives down the street?
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2008  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
It would be a sacrifice of the present for the benefit of the future


Excellent point! Our Founding Fathers made sacrifices for the hope of a better future. The Constitution they gave us is clear what the Federal government can and cannot do.

Change is often difficult, especially today when we expect an immediate payout for our efforts. The longterm goal is overlooked in favour of a quick score.

To relate this back to coins, it is no different than comparing the collector that plans to keep them for a long time, possibly to pass down to future generations; or the short term investor hoping to turn a quick profit. Coins, IMHO, are not the way to make fast money.

All said, anything we do to correct our broken system will have to be for the future long term benefit.
Edited by jbuck
01/21/2008 5:53 pm
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bmanofnbc's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2008  7:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bmanofnbc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coins will be eliminated from circulation before the govt will return to the gold standard.

If U.S. coins were made from silver again they would all be melted for a profit.
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neuron's Avatar
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 Posted 01/23/2008  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add neuron to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure that returning to a gold standard is actually the answer... although until recently I thought it might be.

It seems that the best answer would be for our government to actually make the money, as opposed to the Federal Reserve (a private international consortium of banks including JPMorgan Chase, Citibank, Bank of America, and many more). THAT's the main problem- the US isn't in charge of its own money! We need to return to the Greenback system.

The exception is coins... the US mints those. The other 99+% of US Dollars in existence (composed of Federal Reserve Notes and computer/ledger entries) are essentially created out of thin air by private banks.

If you are interested in learning more, I *HIGHLY* recommend Ellen Brown's "Web of Debt" (ISBN: 0979560802). I bought it on Amazon, but I'm sure it is widely available. The book explains in detail the past and present of the Federal Reserve and its widespread role in shaping not only America, but indeed the entire world.

You'll never look at the world the same way again, and "The Wizard of Oz" will take on a whole new meaning for you (it was written as an allegory of the monetary system!).

If anyone here does read the book, I'd love to hear what you think. It has played a big role in my newfound interest in politics.

Regards,
~neuron
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GFR3's Avatar
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 Posted 01/23/2008  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GFR3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
If you are interested in learning more, I *HIGHLY* recommend Ellen Brown's "Web of Debt" (ISBN: 0979560802). I bought it on Amazon, but I'm sure it is widely available. The book explains in detail the past and present of the Federal Reserve and its widespread role in shaping not only America, but indeed the entire world.


I have yet to pick up "Web of Debt" but I have heard that it is definitely worth getting and I plan to once I finish up some of the other books I have stockpiled on my desk. "Gold, Peace, and Prosperity" by Ron Paul is another good one, as are anything writen by Murry Rothbard or, the Grand Master Himself, Ludvig Von Mises. One final source telling with the Fed is a documentary called ZEITGEIST (the first half of part III deals mainly with the Fed Reserve and our current monetary system) It is very well done and explains nearly the entire situation in one (relatively) short video. I recommend it to anyone with an interest in this topic or with an hour or so to kill. Google it, You won't regret it.



quote:
Coins will be eliminated from circulation before the govt will return to the gold standard.


Sadly, you hit the nail on the head my friend. It's happening already--young people prefer cards and electronic money over cash. Before you know it, we'll all have mirco-chip implants that are hooked directly to our accounts. Currency whether it is silver or clad, gold or paper, will be a thing of the past. All it will take is another depression and/or a "shortage" of nickel, zinc and whatnot for this new, "modern money" to be forced on us. Not to sound all depressive and everything, but I fear one day the government will declare "all silver/gold coins are illegal and must be recalled" and we'll have IRS agents knocking (hopefully knocking!) on our doors to come and take our Kennedys, ASEs, Bullion, and whatever else we have collected throughout our lives. I pray this is not the case and Silver will one day be returned to our currency, but I just dont know anymore....

--Gary
Edited by GFR3
01/23/2008 7:47 pm
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karrlot's Avatar
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535 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2008  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add karrlot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I disagree that we'll ever eliminate cash completely. I think that there is a significant amount of the lower class who only lives on cash. As the middle class falls out, that is just going to increase. Then again, even food stamps are now distributed on plastic, so maybe I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.
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GFR3's Avatar
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473 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2008  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GFR3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
lol food stamps too? I didn't know it was that bad already

--Gary
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Stephen420's Avatar
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411 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2008  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stephen420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My 2C: I mean no offense, but unless there are some redeeming subtleties that have not yet been announced, this is a pipe dream, and a not very well thought out one at that. Here's why:

First, the enormous energy it would take to dismantle the Federal reserve, the effects that such a reckless dismantling would have on global markets, the effects on our whole culture when those markets collapse, is just inconceivable. Plus, who can believe it? Does anyone think that next January 20, a couple of hundred thousand bureaucrats are just going to hang up their hats and go home? Certainly not. That's why I never pay attention when politicians start promising to reform the federal government.

Second, bullion, like most commodities, is intolerably unpredictable in price, and it's a dream to think Congress would give the Nevada silver industry, even if they could, the inconceivably huge job and bounty of producing sufficient silver for United States coinage; can you imagine how much it would take to mint just the billions of quarters we go through every year? And we can't just ignore the rest of the silver-producing world, by legislative fiat, so Nevada politicians could start riding the Tiger.

Third, the bullion market is now financed with currency, not the other way round. And it's thinly financed at that - bullion is cumbersome to change hands so it's not as easy to dump it, and you never know from one day to the next whether it would be a good idea to do that or not; that's partly why most investors stay away from bullion altogether.

In the long run, the current gold frenzy is a fad, and a whole lot of people are going to lose a whole lot of money. Gold was $925 last month and is now around $880; for most of 2007, it was around $750. I don't care if it goes up to two thousand; You can't back up currency with something that volatile. Plus, the idea that the President of the United States could, much less should, direct the Congress to undertake such folly is frankly unsupportable under our Constitution, which, among other things, specifically excludes the coining of money from Presidential powers and gives it to Congress. I'm sorry, but IMO, it's like believing in magic.
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