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1859 Large Cent With Raised Field... What Is This?

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Valued Member
Canada
300 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add XWLCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After looking at that link, its very cool to see another. Most would likely say its from the same die... But its not. Check out the double 85 on the one I've posted up here




It's the same collapse in essentially the same spot, but its a completely different die.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  7:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
all the other cracks are there, and the missing stem on the leaf in the 4 o'clock. It would be highly unlikely that they would have repunched the 8 and 5 on a collapsed die? I still do think it's the same die.
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United States
2840 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like exactly the same coin .. not just the same die, but the same coin. Both have the 85 doubled. By the same coin, I mean the first coin shown and the last .... not the link from NYbirdy.
Edited by okiecoiner
01/12/2016 7:51 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is the same coin, the poster just enlarged the date
Valued Member
Canada
300 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add XWLCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a side by side of both... The 2 die cracks are in the same position. Yes... But compare the stems and vine and there is a handful of differences between them
It even appears that the placement of the 9 is in a different position.


Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What we seem to possibly have here is a one in a billion coincidence
Valued Member
United States
448 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  8:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nybird to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Must be different dies look at stem 8
Valued Member
Canada
300 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add XWLCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes I noticed that as well. A lot of other features look the same, the #8 stem is the clear marker that it's different.
Very interesting.
After a die collapses, its essentially garbage right? Or is it reparable?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What we seem to possibly have here is a one in a billion coincidence

or

Considering die wear progression, grease clogs and many strikes later. You don't really expect them to look exactly the same do you?
I think the chances of that would be more likely as the collapse is in the same spot. just my opinion
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Either it's a die collapse in the same spot on a different but very similar die; same cracks etc, or, they repunched the numbers on a die that was collapsed.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Making a die in those days was a huge deal..so if a die was near the end of the 1859 cent run and needed a 5 re-punched, would you call for a new die or just do a quick repair?
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Canada
1463 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2016  10:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just can't imagine repunching a collapsed die, especially if what we're imagining is true, that these coins were struck close together. Also, as can be seen, there's really no issue with the numbers on what we imagine to be the earlier coin struck. It's a head scratcher.
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United States
763 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2016  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the coin from Dr. Haxby's site may be reverse E16b. The die collapse is very similar on both coins. Nice coin XWLCOINS!
Pillar of the Community
Canada
772 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2016  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hounddog Bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to summarize everything that has been said here.
The coin in the original post was ID'd correctly by colonial tokens as PC59-46a4 obv 46a + rev K3 and I agree it's from a later die state. looking on Dr. Haxby's site he doesn't mention a collapse for this rev die so this is a new discovery for this collapse anyway.
The coin that it's being compared to is PC59-143 obv 14 + rev E16b however this collapse is well documented on Dr. Haxby's site.

I really like it and I think it has some wow factor but there's no mystery here, it's just such a great example.

Cheers, Bill
Valued Member
Canada
300 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2016  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add XWLCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, excellent! Thanks for the clarification!
This has been a fantastic thread! I'm glad to be apart of it.
For anyone interested, the coin is for sale and its currently on eBay.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post an item # here. But I'm easily located on eBay since I have the same name that I have here.

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