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Dollar 1982 Constitution  
 

 
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Canada
269 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2016  7:57 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add castor to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Good evening

I put 5 photos coins with different liners.

I would like your opinion.

Thank you

I studied about 350 coins of the dollar 1982 constitution.

I have the Charlton Catalogue 67 edition 2013.

My question concerns the 1982 Doubled Die because the catalog photo is very difficult to see for this lining.



Coin#1









Coin#2





Coin#3



Coin#4



Coin#5

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Canada
2029 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2016  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Castor, it looks like machine or Strike Doubling for the pictures you have posted.
The legends and date and jewels look shaved or smaller as a result of the strike
with irregular steps. Don't think you have the Obv.-002 Double Die (Normal Jewels).
Valued Member
Canada
269 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2016  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add castor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SilverDon thank you for your comment.

It would be interesting if other members give their feedback.
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United States
1937 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2016  7:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks to me like Mechanical Doubling, but Charlton or someone may have just given it the name of "doubled die". Nothing is really doubled .. the planchet moves during striking (actually just on the way up, not down).
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Canada
7891 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2016  12:13 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Charlton Catalogue used the term incorrectly (probably terminology carried over from the 60th edition Charlton?). I was a contributor to this section, but a lot stuff from the 60th edition was kept intact. The main argument I went after at the time, was to remove the 1968 DHL #2 from the catalogue... it was a matter of picking my battles. That said, Obv-002, as shown in both the 60th and 67th edition catalogues (note they used the same photo in both editions) is, in fact, die deterioration doubling.

To the best of my knowledge, a doubled die obverse for 1982 Constitution dollar, in the purest definition of that term (hub or punch doubled), does not exist.

The coins in this thread are not doubled dies. In the 1982 Constitution dollars (I have probably examined close to 10,000 coins), I see die deterioration doubling, Machine Doubling and sometimes a combination of both.

Great photos, by the way - here is what I see:

Coin #1 - Machine Doubling
Photo #1-1 - Machine Doubling, with early die deterioration doubling seen at the top of 'N' in CANADA.

Coin #2 - Die deterioration doubling

Coin #3 - Die deterioration doubling

Coin #4 - Machine Doubling

Coin #5 - Machine Doubling (a great example, showing a nice offset and step-like doubling)
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Valued Member
Canada
269 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2016  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add castor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello SPP Ottawa

Thanks for having to clarify that there was an error in Charlton and that the coin “Doubled Die” does not exist.

You are the reference recognized by the numismatic community for your studies on the nickel parts (1968-1987) and this clarification coming from you will be beneficial for the numismatists.

For the benefit of the French speaking numismatists who do not understand English I will translate into French your comment which you will be able to see on this link.

http://www.numicanada.com/forum/vie...1403#p201403

Thanks again.

Here the French translation which I will put.


Le catalogue Charlton a employé le terme inexactement (probablement terminologie reportée de la soixantième édition Charlton ?).

J'ai été un contribuant à cette section, mais beaucoup de la substance de la soixantième édition a été maintenue intacte.

L'argument principal pourquoi je suis allé à ce moment, était de faire enlever le DHL 1968 #2 du catalogue… que c'était une question de sélectionner mes batailles.

Ceci dit, Obv-002, suivant les indications d’édition des soixantième et soixante-septième catalogues (note ils ont employé la même photo dans les deux éditions) est, en fait, un coin détérioré doublure.

Au meilleur de ma connaissance, un coin doublé pour le dollar 1982 constitution, dans la définition la plus pure de ce terme (hub ou poinçon doublé), n'existe pas.

Les pièces de monnaie dans ce message ne sont pas des coins doublés. Pour les dollars 1982 constitution (j'ai probablement examiné de près de 10.000 pièces de monnaie), je vois pour des coins détériorés doublure, des doublages mécanique et parfois une combinaison de chacun des deux.
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7891 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2016  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Note that I have only seen the Die Deterioration doubling on the obverse with the Large Jewel. You do however, see Machine Doubling on the obverse with both Large Jewel and Small Jewel types.
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Canada
4162 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2016  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This thread is a perfect reference as to how valuable this site is. I am about to look through a few hundred of these and, looking at the Charlton I'm thinking, "The photo is small, but that sure looks like Machine Doubling." Thanks!
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Canada
7891 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2016  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe CCF could be promoted in the RCNA "Numisnotes"....
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Canada
4162 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2016  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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Canada
4162 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2016  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With SPP's help, the information was updated in June's edition of NumisNotes.
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