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 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,352 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
the description of this listing bothers me, it is very misleading and misinforming about the history of the dot and doesn't even make sense when you think about how the die would have to be affected for this to even be possible. I'm sorry, but this disturbs me. it is simply a die pit. Quote:After India was granted its independence in 1947, the ET IND: IMP: (and Emperor of India) became outdated. New dies had to be made, a very time-consuming process and in the meantime the Royal Canadian Mint had to make do with old dies. To distinguish those issues, a tiny maple leaf was placed to the right of the date. On an unknown number of examples, the maple leaf became filled and had the appearance of a tiny dot. http://www.icollector.com/1947-Twen...ot_i24982728Feel free to call me Will.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I do not know Canadian numismatics in detail.
Are there any published scholastic statements to support the seller's claim?
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21634 Posts |
As usual, dollarman is correct. The dot is the size of a pinhead and not even in the same location as the ML. If it was a filled in ML, it would be much larger. There is nothing to support the sellers claim. The only thing correct is that the small ML signified coins minted in 1948. Location and size of ML  Edited by JimmyD
06/26/2016 7:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Most interesting is ICCS notation on label
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2784 Posts |
yes this statement is true. page 155 of the 2016 charlton standard catalogue. canadian coin. the image you have in your link. what I dont see is the dot or the maple. so I dont understand the value of this coin. maybe some of the experts can explain. why this coin is so valuable.
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21634 Posts |
Yes rocky,
The statement is true up to a point. I know there is a 47 dot and that is what the coinbeing sold is,
but that is not the issue here, it is that the seller states it was caused by the filling in of the ML.
It was, as dollarman stated created by a die chip.
This is what is misleading.
Edited by JimmyD
06/26/2016 8:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2427 Posts |
Just about every auction has something like this in it. The Auction house does not like for these misleading errors to be pointed out as it causes much grief.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
4911 Posts |
@darryldarryl this isn't the first time. I always find errors and extreme mistakes on past icollector sales. if you think this misleading description is bad than look through past error sales and you'll find a fair bit of fake errors and outright damaged pieces passed off as errors or mixed in with legit errors in lots. not to mention an 1858-9 brockage of obverse(no date) that was slabbed as an 1858, it had obvious 1859 die markers. although that instance was a TPG mistake, it shouldnt have been sold as such by the auction company. the days of honest, good business are over and we are in the age of doing anything for that extra buck  it's sad.. Feel free to call me Will.
Edited by thedollarman
06/26/2016 9:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts |
I really don't think that there is anything nefarious afoot here.
The variety is well known and the auctioneer's description of the origin of the variety is irrelevant to the sale. The auctioneer is just taking a page from the book of many other auctioneers (like say the Heffels in the Canadian art world) and trying to tell a story about the coin that is for sale. While the story may be wrong, we should not fault the auctioneer for trying to tell a story to get people interested in coins and educate them. So he was wrong this time. I suspect everone on this site has been wrong about coins before (including me at least half the time!!). Coin collecting would be a much more successful hobby if it was a lot more friendly and less full of rivalry, sanctimony, condescension etc. etc.
The best way to handle this kind of thing is to send the auctioneer a note offering a better description of the error rather than more or less suggesting that the auctioneer is trying to somehow cheat buyers ........
Edited by Smallcentguy
06/26/2016 10:00 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
Quote:
I really don't think that there is anything nefarious afoot here. hi smallcentguy, I just wanted to say that I should have been more clear with my opinion. I too beleive it was not done with wrong intentions or to falsely inform people on purpose. it just bothered me somewhat that although this theory has floated around before, it is obviously wrong yet got in the description. it is quite possible that this is what the person writing the description thought was the origin of the dot. the part that bothered me is that it is false information and will possible give many people the wrong story behind the coin. Feel free to call me Will.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4227 Posts |
Quote:
Coin collecting would be a much more successful hobby if it was a lot more friendly and less full of rivalry, sanctimony, condescension etc. etc. In every context ... this. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts |
Not trying to ick a fight with you Dollarman and thanks for the clarification. Sometimes I just get tired of the competitive aspect of the hobby.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9866 Posts |
smallcentguy, you are right, the auctioneer did not make this story up for this auction, it has been circulating for about fifty years and was likely pulled from some previous catalogue word for word.
What the use of this description shows is utter laziness and a total lack of regard for the owner of this coin if it has been consigned to this auction rather than an item from their inventory.
The auctioneers themselves have been around the block and know full well the origins of the dot. Don't they proofread each listing, isn't that part of being in the auction game? If this was your coin consigned to their auction would you not feel slighted and cast aside?
For us this is a hobby, we are entitled to a lot of mistakes.
These guys are supposed to be professionals.
So many of the "professionals" associated with this hobby in Canada are second rate and we let it slide,it's good to bring these things to attention otherwise second rate will go on forever.
PS On second thought it wont go on forever, it will soon decline to third rate.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
06/27/2016 01:41 am
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Moderator
 Canada
10460 Posts |
Quote:
I just wanted to say that I should have been more clear with my opinion. I too beleive it was not done with wrong intentions or to falsely inform people on purpose In the future, take care better of your thread titles then... you can do more harm than good in the long term. I edited this thread title - to reflect your follow-up post. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
thankyou SPP-Ottawa. I agree, I should have been more clear.
Feel free to call me Will.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
504 Posts |
Check out ebay and all the different dots or die chips and pieces of the maple leaf they are calling a dot. Here is one example item no 162116069666.A lot of the graded coins have dots in a different position as well. |
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Replies: 19 / Views: 3,352 |
Posted 06/26/2016 7:30 pm
