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1943 "Bronze" "Copper" "Experimental" ..... Real/Fake?

 
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New Member
United States
31 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  01:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dtl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's ok guys, very cool coin either way, and a weeks pay is worth it ;) Best lotto ticket I ever bought I feel...Well, it's good too know I haven't really damaged the mystery coin with how I cleaned it...probly only removed tarnish.... should I bury it for a few months to restore appeal? Just kidding.

I got a cheap microscope, and with a flashlight and the i-pad was able too kinda see the 3.

As a new collector I can see investing and getting a nice set up for pictures and viewing coins.






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United States
1576 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  05:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jasper62 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It's ok guys, very cool coin either way, and a weeks pay is worth it

You make $10.00 a week & spent it all on a fake coin?
Edited by jasper62
01/19/2017 05:55 am
New Member
United States
31 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dtl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, that was a low blow. Maybe your having a bad day...lol.

Have you even looked at all the pictures of the coin? Do you have anything valid or intelligent to say.... You seem so thoroughly convinced it is fake, tell me why....

This forum is for doing exactly what I'm doing, research.

I can take the fake comments all day if you actually have a valid point....


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10221 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Have you sent it in or are you still planning to?

I don't see anything that tells me it's fake. I read a 2012 article of one found with a composition that didn't match a '42 planchet, foreign planchet or shell casing composition that was found in a roll.

It also seems highly plausible that it made its way to Puerto Rico and eventually into the hands of the seller.

I think I'm with you on this one. Very intriguing.
Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
-Lucretius
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
-Kurdt Kobain
My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
Pillar of the Community
United States
1576 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jasper62 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Wow, that was a low blow. Maybe your having a bad day...lol.
Have you even looked at all the pictures of the coin? Do you have anything valid or intelligent to say.... You seem so thoroughly convinced it is fake, tell me why....

This forum is for doing exactly what I'm doing, research.

I can take the fake comments all day if you actually have a valid point....

You seemed like someone that could handle the joke. "My bad"
Yes I've looked at all the pictures & there's nothing that proves or disproves it's a bronze/copper cent. Just by looking at the pictures and I don't believe one person here can definitively say it's real or not
You've been given some good advice on how to proceed to validate the coin. You can take more pictures and talk about it some more which will accomplish very little or go ahead & send it in. Personally I don't believe it's real just because of the astronomical odds that it is a fake but if it was Mine I'd send it in anyway. I'm a gambling man myself. I truly hope it's real for ya.That would be so cool
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United States
31 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2017  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dtl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
New Member
20 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2018  01:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PennyLover76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Everyone commenting on this new 43 copper penny are jerks! You do not know anything about this penny because you' don't have one! The only way to find out for sure is to have it's metallurgic value tested!
I know this for a fact because last year I posted about the penny I found and weighs 2.7 g - and all of you made fun of me !
Guess what? Long Beach. Expo Friday, September 7, 2018 !
My penny is the only one of its kind! You people are like overgrown bullies, not at all helpful or encouraging!! This is a hobby! And I'm a lady!
All of you should stop pretending like you're professional coin graders, because you are not ! Trolls!

DTL -
I just got back from the Long Beach. Expo and have been dealing with the same situation for the last two years as yourself. I found out that you need to have the metallurgic value tested. And PCGS referred me to a man that I already knew named Fred Weinberg out of Maryland, it costs $250, but this service is not listed on the PCGS submission form, so you have to ask for it! PGCS then sends it to Fred Weinberg for the metallurgic test. Trust me! I just went through a big ordeal with PCGS grading and it's really tricky especially with this rare penny. If you request a certain service, that' is the service they will do. they will not go out of the way if you don't know what you need. I chose rarities $310! That was wrong come to find out, and I bet none of these "know it alls" can tell you that!! The mint error service, and metallurgic composition is what you need.
At the expo I first went to NGC and within 20 minutes they clarified everything and explained it to me and their services are cheaper. With PGCS I spent months going round and round on the phone email even before I had my penny graded, I inquired countless times asking if I was using the right service because I was unsure. Then after I got my penny back, it was graded as a normal 1cent penny? not stating the weight stating it was an error? basically - make a wish with iit Blondie! Then they made fun of me and asked if I had a Brinks account because of the declared value I placed on it - $10 million!? It's priceless !
The only way you lwill find out for sure is to do what I'm doing. None of these windbags can tell you anything definite; and they should be ashamed of themselves because they are not professionals and they don't know crap!!
Look at my post from last year regarding my penny and all of thei negative dismissive comments they made! Trying to make me feel stupid?
Thanks guys!

Forum Dad
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20144 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2018  10:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So lets see a picture of your unique 2.7 gram cent in a slab instead of you standing by a sign. You've been stringing us along for almost a year waiting for pics.
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20 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2018  11:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PennyLover76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How in the world can you see the metallurgic value just by looking at a photo ?
Clue in! Mine is being evacuated ! If you knew anything, they don't do onset grading!
Thanks to all the helpful toilet talkers on this site that were so welcoming! Start weighing your change gramps!

Forum Dad
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 Posted 09/08/2018  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I know a little something.

I know it's not unique. Thin planchet errors are readily available, there are a half dozen or so on eBay right now. I've seen them down to 2.2 grams.

I also know Fred Weinberg is a PCGS error consultant and there's a good chance he's already looked at your coin.

I also know you're on very thin ice here, call people names one more time and you're done.
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 Posted 09/21/2019  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PennyLover76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply






"Shell casing" Bronze (1944-1945)

Composition: 95% Copper and 5% Zinc
Diameter: 19mm
Weight: 2.70g
Edge: Plain

Production of the war-time cent was provided for in an Act of Congress approved on December 18, 1942, which also set as the expiration date of the authority December 31, 1946. Low-grade carbon steel formed the base of these coins, to which a zinc coating 0.0005-inch (0.013 mm) thick was deposited on each side electrolytically as a rust preventive. This coating was applied to the steel before the blanks were made, leaving the rims of these coins extremely susceptible to rust. The same size was maintained, but the weight was reduced from the standard 48 grains (3.1 g) to 42 grains (2.7 g), by using a lighter alloy. Production commenced on February 27, 1943, and by December 31 of that year, the three Mint facilities had produced 1,093,838,670 of the one-cent coins. The copper released for the war effort was enough to meet the combined needs of two cruisers, two destroyers, 1,243 Flying Fortresses, 120 field guns and 120 howitzers, or enough for 1,250,000 shells for large field guns.[32][33]

Wartime brass, 1944-1946. Numerous complaints about the gray color of the 1943 cents, especially that they could be mistaken for dimes, led to a change in composition of the wartime cent. On January 1, 1944, the Mint was able to adopt a modified alloy, the supply being derived from expended shell casings which, when melted, furnished a composition similar to the original, but with a much smaller trace of tin.[citation needed] The original weight of 48 grains (3.1 g) was also restored.

Even before the United States entered the war, there were inklings that the cent, as well as the nickel were in trouble. The nickel was made out of 75% copper. Copper was in huge demand due to its use by defense contractors in the manufacturing process of various supplies and equipment needed in case of the US going to war.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, the rumors only grew and in January 1942, The Numismatic Scrapbook Magazine reported that Treasury officials were giving serious consideration to using different metal contents for some coins. The first step occurred on January 23rd, 1942, when the Treasury ordered the removal of all but a trace of tin from the cent from the already small amount that had been in use. The existing supply of strips and planchets were used and it is speculated that cents produced in 1942 were produced of both metal compositions. This small change was expected to save 100,000 pounds of tin.

Throughout 1942, there were repeated attempts and pleas to the public to turn in their cents and nickels. Even with these pleas, the shortages continued and for the last six months of the year the mint scaled back production of cents and nickels. During this time, experiments were conducted with various metal compositions, fibers, plastics and even glass. On December 18, 1942, Public Law 77-815 was enacted. This law called for the melting of more silver dollars and for the authorization of metal substitutes for the one cent and five cent coins not to go beyond December 31st, 1946. The nickel had already seen its change utilizing more silver in its content. The Treasury wasted no time and on December 23, 1942, Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau, Jr. ordered that all cents produced after January 1st 1943 be comprised of low-carbon steel coated with zinc. The zinc plating was to provide a thin coating to prevent rust and was to be no more than .001 inches thick. The same diameter of coin was maintained, but the weight was reduced from the standard 48 grains to 42 grains, due to the use of a lighter alloy. It took some time to produce sufficient supplies of planchets and production commenced on February 23, 1943 at the Philadelphia Mint with the Denver and San Francisco Mints beginning production the next month.

On February 27th, the first delivery of cents was made to the Treasury and within a few weeks, the steel cents were in circulation. Although the Treasury Department assured the public that the coin, after being in circulation for a while, would gain a distinct appearance, many people noticed the color resemblance of a dime. Complaints continued to pour into the Treasury. For example, due to there magnetic property, many mechanical devices treated the new cent as a slug. Back then, there were quite a few uses for the cent and this was a big deal.

The new cent was so much hated by the public that the Treasury was moved to issue them only when bronze-copper cents were not available. Still, demand for cents for business was so great, that the public was forced to use them as that was what was available. In the fall of 1943, the Treasury announced that no steel cents would be produced after December 31, 1943 and that the mint would produce cents from the pre-war alloy, but without tin. These cents, from 1944 through 1946 were to be known as shell-case cents, as the metal generally came from spent shell-casings. It was also announced that there would be no recall of the steel cent.

Production commenced on February 27, 1943, and by December 31, 1943, the three Mint facilities had produced 1,093,838,670 of the one-cent coins. The copper released for the war effort was enough to meet the combined needs of 2 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 1,243 flying fortresses, 120 field guns and 120 howitzers, or enough for 1.25 million shells four our big field guns. These pennies are sometimes referred to as silver pennies due to their color when in new/AU/BU condition.


After the war, the Treasury did begin recalling steel cents for the next 20 years. Although not publicized, coins were to be returned to the treasury in the normal course of business. By 1950, steel cents were becoming scarce and by 1960, nearly non-existent. By this time, steel cents had deteriorated quite a bit. Even though a recall was in effect, the Mints own records indicate over 930 million remained in circulation.

Unique to this variety
Due to wartime needs of copper for use in ammunition and other military equipment during World War II, the US Mint researched various ways to limit dependence and meet conservation goals on copper usage. After trying out several substitutes (ranging from other metals to plastics) to replace the then-standard bronze alloy, the one cent coin was minted in zinc-coated steel. It was struck at all three mints; Philadelphia, Denver, and San Francisco. Coins from the latter two sites have respectively "D" and "S" mintmarks below the date.

However, problems began to arise from the mintage. Freshly minted, they were often mistaken for dimes. Magnets in vending machines (which took "copper" cents) placed to pick up steel slugs also picked up the legitimate steel cents. Because the galvanization process didn't cover the edges of the coins, sweat would quickly rust the metal, turning the coins into a rusty mess. After public outcry, the Mint developed a process whereby salvaged brass shell casings were augmented with pure copper to produce an alloy close to the 1941-42 composition. This was used for 1944-46 dated cents, after which the prewar composition was resumed. Although they continued to circulate in the 1960s, the mint collected large numbers of the 1943 cents and destroyed them.
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 Posted 09/21/2019  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PennyLover76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, and I have spoken to Fred Weinberg personally, several times and he declined. The name of the metallurgist that did analyze my penny is on the composition report. If you would like to know I would be glad to prove that also.
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 Posted 09/22/2019  12:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Panther to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Penny;

What made you weight that coin in the first place ? Terrific find.
-------------------------------------------------------

DTL;

Until I did a little more research, I wouldn't send that coin anywhere, yet.



Dan
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10221 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  01:52 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@PennyLover76

What do the "shell casing" cents have to do with your coin? Yours is a 1948 (post-shell casing) and a higher weight (2.82g) according to NGC. Something has to give. I am thinking NGC got it right on the slab description and this has nothing to do with shell casings.
Your own metallic analysis shows it is essentially (within spec) 95% copper and 5% zinc, just like it should be. It was struck on a thin planchet.
Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
-Lucretius
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
-Kurdt Kobain
My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
New Member
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 Posted 09/22/2019  02:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PennyLover76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
spruett001

https://mikebyers.com/unique-1943-c...ece-set.html

Why and how would it have Titanium?

Panther - Thank you, I was just weighing all of my change... You never know when you'll find one! It just sucks when everyone you ask about it automatically dismisses you? And says that it isn't worth anything - They are very wrong.
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