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Official Post A "Black Beauty" Jefferson Nickel Thread!

 
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 Posted 05/22/2017  12:34 am Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
There seems to be a lot of uncertainty surrounding so-called "Black Beauty" Jefferson nickels so I thought that a concentrated topic with tons of pics and informative discussion would be nice.

During my searches, I found one topic from 2010 that was similar but it died very quickly. All of the information seems contradictory and sporadic when jumping from topic to topic to whatever is found on the web.

- Is it an annealing error or an alloy mix error?

I've read both. ANACS changed their attribution from "Improperly Annealed" to "Improper Alloy Mix." I've read that it could be due to trace amounts of cobalt or silicon remaining after the nickel refining process. From what I understand, silicon and cobalt would have to come from two distinct types of nickel ores used (there are several).

Some say that it is "over-annealed", "baked too long", annealed more than once, improperly cooled, etc. There seems to be no consensus as to definite cause.

What does seem to have been decided is that 1958 and 1959 are the prime years for finding these. Of course, other years cannot be excluded from an error of this sort.

The best description of color I've read is "gunmetal".


Some rules:

- Do not post coins that are obviously environmental damage.

- The coin must retain at least partial mint luster. Otherwise, see above.

- Comparison pics are encouraged (preferably similar grade/year)

- Slabbed & attributed examples are certainly welcome but, please post close-ups of the coin, not just full slab shots.

- If you disagree that a coin posted is a "Black Beauty", provide an explanation as to why.

This is meant to be educational as well as a show-and-tell!

__________________

I'll start. This coin has already been posted, I believe, by Crazyb0 but, it's mine now!

http://goccf.com/t/284504

My pics:

















Steps!




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Edited by spruett001
05/22/2017 4:27 pm
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 Posted 05/22/2017  12:58 am  Show Profile   Check TNG's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll be liking this thread. I think I have a nice one or two around. It's my picture taking that is lacking but I need the practice. I'll hopefully add to this thread soon.
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 Posted 05/22/2017  03:47 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I forgot to add that "sintering" is another term thrown about.

Being "sintered" doesn't explain the anomaly from my perspective. Maybe we can get expertise concerning all of the stages of refining nickel to combine with copper that make Nickels!




Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
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"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
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My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
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 Posted 05/22/2017  07:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is my only one. It was a roll find back in the 70's.



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 Posted 05/22/2017  07:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Potbellypub to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the most recent one I've found from change. It's a 1960. I have a 59 I'll post later today it is a nicer example.





Does anyone know if these coins leave the mint already this color or is this something that happens over time?
Edited by Potbellypub
05/22/2017 08:02 am
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 Posted 05/22/2017  08:27 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Do not post coins that are obviously environmental damage.

This rule could scare off collectors that are not sure if their coin is a black beauty or environmental damage. "obvious" is not always "obvious" to everyone, believe me (or just read some posts in the error forums).

You state "This is meant to be educational", so wouldn't that include educating those not knowing if their coin is environmental damage?

Or do you want this thread to be only for those that know what a black beauty is and only allow them to post their coins?

Posting coins that are clearly environmental damage might also be considered educational, as long as the photo is accompanied by a description of why it is not a black beauty.
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 Posted 05/22/2017  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coindetector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know it says no "enviromental damage",but this is what a coin looks like if it's spent some long period in the ground. When I'm detecting and find a clad quarter,half or nickel that's been in the dirt awhile it takes on a dark tone like those in the pics.If there is any more detectorists out there I think they would concur.
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 Posted 05/22/2017  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I know it says no "environmental damage",but this is what a coin looks like if it's spent some long period in the ground.

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 Posted 05/22/2017  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@nss-52

I was definitely not trying to be exclusive or scare off collectors with that first rule. It came about because I have read quite a few "Black Beauty" topics here on CCF and elsewhere and did not want this topic to become confusing. However, I agree that discussing coins that are environmentally damaged alongside the error coins would be more educational.

My goal is to create sort of a one-stop-topic for anyone wishing to know more about these Beauties.

I lined out the first rule. I didn't add anything to it because the last rule covers discussing potentially damaged coins.


Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
-Lucretius
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
-Kurdt Kobain
My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
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 Posted 05/22/2017  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Potbellypub to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
spruette I'm looking forward to seeing the date range of everyone's finds.
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 Posted 05/22/2017  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pf123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

I found this one a couple of months ago


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 Posted 05/22/2017  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Potbellypub to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is my 1959 I got it from a coin roll a few months back.





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 Posted 05/23/2017  12:18 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing everyone!

Part of the idea is to compile many different specimens back-to-back for easy comparison. Hopefully, that will help anyone interested to see what to look for. I know that pics aren't the same as examining one in person but, when you see several in a row that all exhibit the same characteristics, a more clear mental picture will develop.
Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
-Lucretius
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
-Kurdt Kobain
My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
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 Posted 05/23/2017  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SDM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a few moreI will dig out



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 Posted 05/28/2017  01:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Potbellypub to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coins posted are all very nice but I thought we would see more. Are there just not that many out there?
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 Posted 05/28/2017  04:12 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to think there are much more out there.

Thanks everyone for the contributions!

If you're questioning whether your nickel qualifies or not, post it and see what others say. No harm.
Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
-Lucretius
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
-Kurdt Kobain
My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
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