Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest! Check out our Google+!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

20 Lire Italia 1865 Vitorio Emanuele  
 

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
New Member

Germany
41 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2017  6:12 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Alexthegreat to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
What would be this coin from Italia?
It has a nice gold patina and the obverse side is stronger in my opinion. Most coins at PCGS and NGC census have the grade 62, but I am not sure if the reverse is good enough for that.
Greetings from Germany
Alex






Edited by Alexthegreat
08/11/2017 7:00 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
13275 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2017  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Obverse: There seems to be the tiniest amount of wear on the nose, mustache and high points of the hair.
I have to admit that there is some slight doubt in my mind about that, because the first obverse picture shows the coin up better, in terms of wear.

Reverse: better, but even less wear on the high points of the crown and the garland around the shield.

Certainly, there are far fewer nicks and scratches than are normally consistent with an MS60 coin. Nevertheless there is a dent in the middle of the cross, and the vertical shield lines are broken with some minor, but significant scratches.

AU58, does not quite make 60, but it should command an MS61 or 2 value, due to an otherwise superior to an AU58 coin.


Overall, a nevertheless pleasing coin with nice eye appeal.

I agree: nice old gold tone luster.
New Member
Germany
41 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2017  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexthegreat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much! I added one more photo of the obverse side! I understand almost all what you said expect for one sentence:
''AU58, does not quite make 60, but it should command an MS61 or 2 value, due to an otherwise superior to an AU58 coin.''
What do you mean by that? 58 with little circulation and 61/62 without? I think that it rather has a weak strike than loss of material from circulation. They made over 3,000,000 coins in 1865 and the embossing stamps were probably done.There are huge stamp tores at the backhead and between the crown and the leafs. I think that is a horror for most american collectors. But things like that have no effect on the european grading scale.
Any other opinions? :-)
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
13275 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2017  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In terms of wear, AU58.
However, I may be wrong if grading is based on first obverse picture.
Inspect under high magnification to see if mint luster remains on the high points I have indicated. IF there IS mint luster in those tiny areas, then this coin should grade MS 61 or 2.

An AU58 normally has many more dents and scratches than this coin has. The extent of the dents and scratches is more consistent with an MS61 or 2 coin.
New Member
Germany
41 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2017  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexthegreat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much!
There is still luster at these higher points. So it would be probably a 61 or a 62. By the way: In Germany the Grades 58,61,62 and 63 are called ''vorzüglich''. Most Europeans would say that a coin in AU58 hast a better condition than a coin in MS60.

Most examples at MA-Shops were in circulation, so this one seams to be a good addition to my smal world gold coin collection
Edited by Alexthegreat
08/12/2017 11:13 am
Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10570 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2017  12:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joseph7420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was trying to decide between AU-58 and MS-61, but if you say there is lustre on the high points, I will go with MS-61.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
13275 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2017  02:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would agree that that Europeans and British would grade an MS60 coin at AU55 to 58.

The easier grading in America (I think) is due to the slabbing industry, where if a collector is not happy with the grade received from a TPGrader, with sometimes re submit to another TPGrader, in the hoping of getting a higher grade.
That puts pressure on the TPGraders to grade more favorably in the interest of the collector so that the collector can sell at a higher price.
That pressure tends it induce a higher grade from the TPGrader.
New Member
Germany
41 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2017  06:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexthegreat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Joseph7420
Thanks for Grading!

@sel_69l
I mean somethink different. On the american scale you decide: Trace of harm = 58 Minus or No Trace of harm = 60 plus. In Europe you have fine, very fine, extra fine, Brilliant uncirculated and Grades that are in between them.
So a MS 64 is usualy ''Extra fine to Brilliant uncirculated''. A 58 and 62 are mostly a normal ''extra fine'', while MS60 is just a ''very fine to extra fine''. So AU 58 is usualy a better condition that MS60 in Europe. Even if the number is smaler.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11613 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2017  10:15 am  Show Profile   Check IndianGoldEagle's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see any break in luster on the high points. With all the dings on the rims and banged up shield on reverse MS-61 for me on this one.
U.S. coins for sale at my eCrater store http://usn6771.ecrater.com/index.php. Free shipping for CCF members
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Ending Soon   Newly Listed   Lowest Price   Highest Price   Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2017 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2017 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.34 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05