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Natural Toning or Questionable Color  
 

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Valued Member

Canada
54 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  2:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add HuguesGervais to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Many may know me as my eBay ID: Hugues Gervais.

Often I am been wrongly accused of artificially toning coins based on the fact that I have many listed toned coins on eBay. The reality is that I collect toned coins so I mostly buy/sell toned coins. As simple as that.
And most of the coins I bought were already toned, and I never try or did toned any coin.
Over the years I gained expertise to know which coins are NT and which one are not.

Recently, I sent a bunch of my coins to PCGS which is very strict to reject Artificially toned or Questionable Color coins compare to ICCS which is more liberal.

I will post many photos of these coins without mentioning yet which one were graded by PCGS and the one that were not graded and tagged as Questionable Color.

I did that as a learning exercice for me and I am glad to share with you guys.

You can comment on which coins you think are AT or Questionable Color.

I will share in 1 week which one were not graded and tagged as Questionable Color.

And in another post I will share if the grade were higher or lower than ICCS.
I will do by nomination.





















Valued Member
Canada
54 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HuguesGervais to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More $1

















Valued Member
Canada
54 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HuguesGervais to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
10 cents now:








1940
















Valued Member
Canada
54 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  2:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HuguesGervais to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
25 cents now:




















Valued Member
Canada
54 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HuguesGervais to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
50 cents and one 1 cent:
















That's it for now.
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United States
5184 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  3:22 pm  Show Profile   Check Crazyb0's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WWWAAAAAYYYYYY, too many coins to even begin, altho I would venture this, a mottled coin is 80% chance of fake tone, a blue edged to rainbow effect is 80-90% chance real based on coin I sent to Thedollarman a while back. I KNOW it was a real exsmple, even sent the nasty*** blue cardboard snapcase I bought it in! Am fairly sure edge rimmed coins are old storage tarnishing, these need to be sent to Little Johnnie's kid sister Lil' Janey...they need a good dunkin' donut!





Some are "purdy" just not my cup o' tea...
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Edited by Crazyb0
09/24/2017 3:23 pm
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United States
23394 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is no process for evaluating a toned coin which comes remotely close to meeting the definition of "Scientific Method." This is because it's trivial, in the hands of a knowledgeable person, to artificially create a toned coin which is physically identical to one which toned under "natural" circumstances. Done right it's not possible to discern a difference.

For that reason, all adjudications of "natural" vs. "artificial" are purely judgmental on the part of the observer. It is, plain and simple, how they felt that day and more importantly, whether they feel the market would accept the coin as "natural."

This is complicated by the fact that there is no universally-accepted definition of "natural." Makes things difficult, don't you think?

Yes, egregious examples of blatant artificial toning abound in the marketplace. These are created by people who aren't as "expert" as those I mentioned above. Those may be discounted for the purposes of this thread, because (remember, it's all subjective so this is only my opinion) I don't see a coin posted here whose color does not make a strong case for "natural" origin. Canadian coinage can tone spectacularly.

So consider that those who denigrate your offerings may or may not have any real expertise in evaluating the origins of toning, and even if they do, the decision is so purely subjective that it simply doesn't matter. The market will speak.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
981 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll try these are the ones I think are AT or questionable according to PCGS

For the dollars 1936 1952 1955 1959 1973 pei and the maple leaf because it look like enviro damage

Dimes 1934 & 1st 1965 pictured

Quarters 2nd 1881 1948 1951 1st 1952 1954

Halves 1949 1953 1959 & 1936 penny is questionable might be enviro damage

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Norway
1357 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UltraRant to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If these are really natural toned coins, then I must say that I am impressed. I really loved watching these coins. Keep posting, please!

After the third coin I got the feeling that the coin was incomplete though. It should read something about George V being king by gods grace, emperor of India and part time alien (with a face color like that).
Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
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United States
18982 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice lot for sure, but I wouldn't even try to comment on this many coins in one post. Good luck!
"You can't fool all the people all the time - others would like a chance."

Pillar of the Community
Canada
3170 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  8:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mr. Gervais..Far too many coins here...

Please start with maybe 5 coins..no one has the time or note taking to check sooooooooooo many..in one shot..
New Member
Canada
23 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2017  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1947ML to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My gut says they are all good, and naturally toned. However, being the keen coin collector I am, I will take a shot and see if my skills are good enough for PCGS.. haha

The only coins I would question are : (fr top to bottom)

1959 Dollar
1950 10 Cents
1965 10 Cents (first one)
1954 50 Cents

That's it. In my opinion , these could possibly be artificial. I do love all the toning on your coins. I think that the beautiful toning just adds to the story and life of that coin. Most silver coins will have some degree of toning anyways. People don't look hard enough to see it, but its there. Also, good photos with proper lighting, tends to show off to larger degree ,, something that is not quite visible in hand.

In any case, I truly appreciated your coins on eBay.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
933 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2017  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is because it's trivial, in the hands of a knowledgeable person, to artificially create a toned coin which is physically identical to one which toned under "natural" circumstances. Done right it's not possible to discern a difference.


Game, set, match. If I leave a silver coin in an environment rich in say, sulfur, for a period of years, it's NT...regardless of the fact that I intentionally placed it there with the full intention of toning the coins. If I can expedite the process further, all I am doing is speeding up the natural process.

There are a lot of coins to consider there, but the silver Maple, 1907 25c, and 1953 25c #2 are some that stand out to me as very questionable.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1079 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2017  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Check Pokermandude's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Way too many in one go.

The majority are very questionable, especially the dollars. The KGV dimes looked okay.
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United States
1190 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2017  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Check Andrew99's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I put a set of white Roosevelt dimes in a Wayte Raymond holder on a shelf for 20 years and they all artificially toned up real nice. I did it deliberately, so AT, right?
The collection is in your mind. Dispose of your albums and free your mind from the tyranny of holes.
Valued Member
Canada
130 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2017  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Right off the bat those two 1935s are highly questionable. Same goes for the 1959. The 37 and 53 halves, and the 1954 quarter also raise alarm bells. There are some really pretty examples mixed in.
Numismatic cataloger, writer, and researcher.

Feel free to PM about cataloging and editing services.
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