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Makeshift "airtight" 2x2 with some glue, what do you think?  
 

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Valued Member

Indonesia
72 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2017  02:03 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Guybrush to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So we all know that 2x2's are not airtight.. What about putting some glue before folding (marked red in pic)? If there's enough glue, when the 2x2 is folded, the glue will get squashed and effectively creating an airtight seal between the 2 inner sides of the cardboard.


I've thought about some kinds of glue:

1.Cyanoacrylate glue:
Definitely not as these often create white condensed fog/haze on any surface near them when drying. They are also very runny so there's very high risk of spilling it to the coin.

2.Silicone rubber sealant:
A good candidate IMO as the silicone itself is inert, but I have concerns about the acetic acid (vinegar) vapor created when drying.

3.UHU glue:
No intention to promote this brand whatsoever, but UHU may be a candidate worth mentioning. UHU glue is clear, gives you up to a few minutes to adjust position, and is viscous (not runny like cyanoacrylate), which is good if we're using it as a sealant.
According to the MSDS http://www.flints.co.uk/pdffiles/UH...ve_(GB).pdf) the only possible concern for coins is methyl acetate, which seem no be not as reactive as acetic acid. The tubes of UHU glue is made of metal and doesn't react with the glue so it may be safe for coins.

What do you guys think? The solvent of the glue must be inert to coins since the vapor will be trapped inside with the coin.
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 Posted 10/23/2017  02:18 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's an interesting idea but, the adhesive would be sealing the Mylar (plastic) on the inside of the 2x2. Are the things you mentioned compatible with Mylar, or would they dissolve it?

One thing of note in this area is that Mylar (BoPET [Biaxially-oriented polyethylene terephthalate]) flips are heat-sealable. That removes the potential chemical reactions and off-gassing from adhesives that may be trapped around the coin.

Some also use vacuum sealers made for food. The bags are PVC-free (food safe).

I think glue in a 2x2 is the least favorable solution. Air-Tite capsules really aren't that expensive for coins that deserve one.
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Indonesia
72 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2017  02:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guybrush to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see. Thanks for your opinion.

I've searched around and it seems that no local dealers sell air-tite capsules, all of them sell Chinese knock-off capsules.

Well, maybe I'll just use 2x2's normally
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 Posted 10/23/2017  03:08 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well, maybe I'll just use 2x2's normally


I think that's a good plan.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
13276 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2017  03:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Guybrush:
I note that you are in Indonesia.
Very humid climate, I understand the need for airtight 2x2's.

Unfortunately, the very thin Mylar film used in 2x2's is very slightly porous, and can become sticky, when used with PVC album pages.
That is certainly MY experience, and I live in Sydney, where we can also suffer very humid days, but much less often.

It is much better to change to archival quality polypropylene or Mylar album pages. They don't cost much more, but can be harder to get. In the case of Mylar album pages, the film is MUCH thicker than what is used in 2x2's

All is not lost, however. A similar approach to what you have suggested CAN be used.
Hard acrylic sheet, like Mylar, is harmless to coins. This is the plastic used for slabs.
Acrylic sheet can be recovered from food packaging.
Cut 2x2 squares from this material, and use these INSIDE your 2x2 cardboard / Mylar flips.
Proceed as you have suggested.

Experiment with which glue may be most suitable for this slightly different approach.

I don't use glue, I just staple the whole lot together, BUT what I do is not airtight.

I agree that a whole album of coins could be stored in a polyethylene clip lock bag of suitable size. Some CCF members do this in the more humid southern areas of the United States.
Also useful for the storage of a banknote collection.

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Indonesia
72 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2017  04:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guybrush to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your opinion, sel.

Can you post a picture of the acrylic plastic you mentioned?
Is it something like this? (doesn't seem like acrylic tho)




Quote:
Unfortunately, the very thin Mylar film used in 2x2's is very slightly porous, and can become sticky, when used with PVC album pages.

If sticking is the problem, perhaps putting the folded 2x2 into a very thin PP/PE plastic bag like this may prevent the mylar from sticking to the PVC album?



For now, practically all of my non-album coins are all in a kind of zip-loc bags like this:


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Australia
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 Posted 10/23/2017  05:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As pictured, you have the right sort of food containers.
Hard clear plastic sheet.
Has to be carefully cleaned, to be free from food contaminants.

Polyethylene as is used for clip lock bags OK for coins, but unfortunately, is only translucent and not a suitable material for seeing through.
Small polyethylene bags with a single 2x2 inside, are not suitable looking at the coin.
As mentioned, polyethylene clip lock bags can be obtained, that are large enough to put a whole coin album in, away from humid air.

Cyanacrylate UHU glue should stick to acrylic, but be beware, it is liquid, it depends on moisture for setting, and can stick your fingers together! DON'T GET ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR EYES!
Also hard to control, because it is runny until set. It will set faster in a humid atmosphere.
DEFINITELY have some acetone solvent close by! USE this glue VERY sparingly, and perhaps with a thin circular gasket of of acrylic plastic. You will need to develop skill when handling UHU glue in this sort of situation, could get messy otherwise.

My brand of cyanacrylate glue just happens to be UHU; some confusion in glue types here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:
You may wish to consider spruett001's suggestion of heat sealing. It may end being a more practicable way to go.

Just put the coin in a smaller pair of squares of Mylar of appropriate size, heat seal with a knife, and dab glue the square at the corners into a 2x2.
Valued Member
Indonesia
72 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2017  07:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guybrush to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think your UHU glue is the Superglue variant -- which is the cyanoacrylate one, is the tube small?

The one I mentioned as "UHU glue" is the all-purpose UHU glue which is viscous not runny like the cyanoacrylate one. This type is more bulky with tubes up to 100 grams+.

I'll definitely try experimenting with heat sealing as well.
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 Posted 10/23/2017  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They do make self-adhesive 2x2 holders, which would accomplish the same thing with less hassle.
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 Posted 10/23/2017  1:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The no staple self sealing 2x2's have been around for decades. I've been using them for 20-25 years without the coins spotting of toning.

About $13 per hundred.
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Australia
13276 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2017  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The self adhesive 2x2's use the same thin Mylar as the stapled type.

As mentioned earlier my experience is that the Mylar can become sticky when they are in PVC album pages. The Mylar can be torn when you try to remove from the album page.
Hardly a solution to trying to achieve airtight! Atmospheric humidity does NOT help in this situation.
That is one of the reasons why I replaced all of my PVC album pages with NON PVC.
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 Posted 10/23/2017  7:29 pm  Show Profile   Check Crazyb0's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Use glue, your brain neurons will be high fivin' one another very quickly...
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 Posted 10/23/2017  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Use too much glue, and it would spread out, onto the coin. There are so many other, better solutions.
Working on: Franklin halves (Unc), Peace dollars (62-63), US type (larger Seated AU)

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 Posted 10/23/2017  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chesterb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
using glue is just not a wise decision in my opinion.
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 Posted 10/23/2017  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You ever try painting without getting any on you then accidentally touching something? Same goes with glue! I've had coins stapled into regular 2X2's since I was a little kid with no problems.
You should always collect within your income, even if you have to borrow to do so.

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Indonesia
72 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2017  06:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guybrush to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all advice!

I guess I'll just stick to the normal 2x2's
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