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1837 Feuchtwanger's Composition One Cent

 
 
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 Posted 01/04/2018  10:40 pm Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Always wanted one of these and finally got it for the price I wanted to pay. Any thoughts and grades would be appreciated. Thanks...



Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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 Posted 01/04/2018  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think this coin is genuine.

The obverse appears to be clearly Obverse 4, but that obverse was only paired with 2 reverses - E and F.

Reverse E has a C on Composition that is thicker at bottom than top. In this coin, the C is thicker on top than bottom.

Reverse F has a left stem that touches the M in Composition. Not the case for this coin.

This coin does not match any of the known die pairs for this coin. I suppose that it could be a newly discovered variety but it seems unlikely.

At first sight, the coin surfaces seemed too nice for a fairly worn coin.

Reference for attribution: http://www.novanumismatics.com/numi...marriages-2/
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 Posted 01/04/2018  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe this coin is trying to emulate the 4E, but another place where there is a notable difference is in the three O's in COMPOSITION in the Reverse E. The plate coin has round thin O's. The subject coin has O's that are thicker in the sides and look elongated. This does not seem to be the result of recut O's or failing lettering due to overused dies. The outline of the O's in the subject coin seem sharp and in a different style.


Edited by numismatic student
01/04/2018 11:38 pm
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 Posted 01/05/2018  02:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NS, there are some doubts as to die pairs . I cant tell if this is a Ty 4 obv, but the rev could be the unknown.

Nevermind, I see it. Oh-oh, not good.
Edited by Crazyb0
01/05/2018 02:19 am
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 Posted 01/05/2018  02:38 am  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the reverse die got mushy but it does match the E reverse. I've never heard of a counterfeit F cent but you never know. I'm hoping more people will chime in. I can't find any Chinese examples.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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 Posted 01/05/2018  2:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can't add anything, but enjoyed the discussion.
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 Posted 01/05/2018  3:02 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's one where the reverse die is starting to deteriorate...https://www.ebay.com/itm/1837-FEUCH....m1438.l2649
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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 Posted 01/05/2018  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you sure its the type 4 obverse?. Looks to be, but...?
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 Posted 01/05/2018  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I went to Heritage's records and found two 4E reverses graded by NGC, the first for a F15 coin in line with the grade of your coin and another an MS63 which has better details from when it was struck.

It looks like they both have a C in COMPOSITION that is thicker in the top and thinner at bottom. That's good news for your coin because it exhibits this trait. The eBay coin you posted as an example also exhibits this thick topped C.

I also looked at the three O's in COMPOSITION. As you can see, the O's in the MS63 example are like the plate coin, thin and round, but the F15 coin, which is nearer your coin, has O's wider at the sides (somewhat) and appear a little elongated. What appears to happen, imho, is that the O's are struck in somewhat high relief. As the coin wears, it looks like the O's may flatten out and get a little wider, especially at the sides.

This is again good news for your coin.

I am still 50/50 because your coin seems to have been struck by a terminal state die where all the letters in ONE CENT seem to have extensive signs of breaking down and filling in any space between the letters. The reverse surfaces also look pristine with no flowlines, cuds or cracks.

Nevertheless, it is looking up for the authenticity of your coin.

Looking at the N in CENT in the two coins below, which look strikingly different, it looks like there was more than one reverse E die used to strike this variety. I suppose it is possible that one of these coins was misattributed.


Edited by numismatic student
01/05/2018 5:16 pm
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 Posted 01/05/2018  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh I have doubt of the authenticity of mine. I've seen too many and seen the progression of the die deteriorating. My reverse looks about terminal for that reverse die. Thanks for all the help, very appreciated.
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 Posted 01/05/2018  7:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A good discussion. Now I want one
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 Posted 07/12/2018  09:51 am  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just noticed this. It should have read that I have NO doubt as to its authenticity.


Quote:
Oh I have doubt of the authenticity of mine. I've seen too many and seen the progression of the die deteriorating. My reverse looks about terminal for that reverse die. Thanks for all the help, very appreciated.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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 Posted 07/13/2018  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jerryc39 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
my example.
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 Posted 07/13/2018  02:09 am  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very very nice Jerry !
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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 Posted 07/13/2018  08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jerryc39 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks!
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