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 Replies: 14 / Views: 2,799 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8520 Posts |
Always wanted one of these and finally got it for the price I wanted to pay. Any thoughts and grades would be appreciated. Thanks...   Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
I don't think this coin is genuine. The obverse appears to be clearly Obverse 4, but that obverse was only paired with 2 reverses - E and F. Reverse E has a C on Composition that is thicker at bottom than top. In this coin, the C is thicker on top than bottom. Reverse F has a left stem that touches the M in Composition. Not the case for this coin. This coin does not match any of the known die pairs for this coin. I suppose that it could be a newly discovered variety but it seems unlikely. At first sight, the coin surfaces seemed too nice for a fairly worn coin. Reference for attribution: http://www.novanumismatics.com/numi...marriages-2/IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
I believe this coin is trying to emulate the 4E, but another place where there is a notable difference is in the three O's in COMPOSITION in the Reverse E. The plate coin has round thin O's. The subject coin has O's that are thicker in the sides and look elongated. This does not seem to be the result of recut O's or failing lettering due to overused dies. The outline of the O's in the subject coin seem sharp and in a different style.   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/04/2018 11:38 pm
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
NS, there are some doubts as to die pairs . I cant tell if this is a Ty 4 obv, but the rev could be the unknown.
Nevermind, I see it. Oh-oh, not good.
Edited by Crazyb0
01/05/2018 02:19 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8520 Posts |
I think the reverse die got mushy but it does match the E reverse. I've never heard of a counterfeit F cent but you never know. I'm hoping more people will chime in. I can't find any Chinese examples.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Can't add anything, but enjoyed the discussion.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8520 Posts |
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Are you sure its the type 4 obverse?. Looks to be, but...?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
I went to Heritage's records and found two 4E reverses graded by NGC, the first for a F15 coin in line with the grade of your coin and another an MS63 which has better details from when it was struck. It looks like they both have a C in COMPOSITION that is thicker in the top and thinner at bottom. That's good news for your coin because it exhibits this trait. The ebay coin you posted as an example also exhibits this thick topped C. I also looked at the three O's in COMPOSITION. As you can see, the O's in the MS63 example are like the plate coin, thin and round, but the F15 coin, which is nearer your coin, has O's wider at the sides (somewhat) and appear a little elongated. What appears to happen, imho, is that the O's are struck in somewhat high relief. As the coin wears, it looks like the O's may flatten out and get a little wider, especially at the sides. This is again good news for your coin. I am still 50/50 because your coin seems to have been struck by a terminal state die where all the letters in ONE CENT seem to have extensive signs of breaking down and filling in any space between the letters. The reverse surfaces also look pristine with no flowlines, Cuds or cracks. Nevertheless, it is looking up for the authenticity of your coin. Looking at the N in CENT in the two coins below, which look strikingly different, it looks like there was more than one reverse E die used to strike this variety. I suppose it is possible that one of these coins was misattributed.   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/05/2018 5:16 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8520 Posts |
Oh I have doubt of the authenticity of mine. I've seen too many and seen the progression of the die deteriorating. My reverse looks about terminal for that reverse die. Thanks for all the help, very appreciated.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
A good discussion. Now I want one  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8520 Posts |
Just noticed this. It should have read that I have NO doubt as to its authenticity. Quote:
Oh I have doubt of the authenticity of mine. I've seen too many and seen the progression of the die deteriorating. My reverse looks about terminal for that reverse die. Thanks for all the help, very appreciated. Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3164 Posts |
my example.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8520 Posts |
Very very nice Jerry !
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3164 Posts |
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Replies: 14 / Views: 2,799 |
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Posted 01/04/2018 11:37 pm
