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Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V2.0)

 
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 Posted 01/20/2018  9:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
After several stops and starts, @medieval's 2015 thread "Walking back in time from 1600 to antiquity by decades" has finally stalled at the decade of 500 to 510 AD http://goccf.com/t/195985). While I plan to keep that one open in the hopes that it can be restarted at some point, it seems that it has now been long enough that we can start over with a second thread, thus allowing new members to post their coins. The original rules will apply to this thread (and are listed below), but just as a gentle reminder:

1. We are looking for coins only minted within a specific decade (which will revert back in time at midnight on the day an acceptable coin is posted).
2. If the date is not included in the inscriptions but can be known by other means, that is fine. However, the potential date range must be 10 years or less, with the first year occurring in the specific decade in play.
3. Please no going back in time to catch up—we should move pretty briskly at least into the 1300s so be sure to bookmark this thread! I'll work with the mods to try to have the title accurately reflect where we are once we start getting a little stuck.
4. Decades will start on years ending in zeroes rather than ones (in other words, when we are on the decade of the 1590s, the date is actually 1590 to 1599 AD)


I do have one one small addition: to help those who use CCF for research, please post as much info about your coin as you can (e.g. attributions and inscriptions).



Quote:
With dated coinage at a premium during several centuries, it is not possible to always find a coin from a specific year. But there are many coins where the minting period of undated coins is known, either because the issuer is known or from records. So let's see how far we can go down history.

Let's use similar rules to the one used in the "How far back can we go" threads in the main coin forum.

1. You must own the coin.
2. You must post a photo of the actual coin you own.
3. Coins need to be dated or for undated coins the minting period must start in the active decade.
4. The active decade changes at midnight (CCF time) once a coin has been posted with a date falling into the decade or an undated coin with a minting period of not more than 10 years starting in the active decade.
For undated coins please include information on the minting period.
This sound a little complicated, so I will try to post the active decade shortly after midnight each day.
5. Please only one coin per post (to ease page loads).
6. Please let someone else post before posting a second coin on a day.

For all those who have their coins on a hosting site, using a link to the image is okay. But please put the 'date' relevant information into your post.

Let's hope we can see plenty different coins covering a lot of history.

And let's start with 1591-1600.


"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 01/21/2018  05:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Personally I think that since the bulk of us have Roman and Greek coins it is counter productive to restart since it is unlikely to have a different outcome this time. My suggestion for this was to start two threads at year 1, one going forwards and one going backwards...(we would at least find out how big the dead zone is) With this thread restarted that would be far too much going on but perhaps you should start going back from the last decade of Roman rule.

I only say that as I am sure I won't be alone in sitting on my hands for a considerable period of time waiting for the thread to progress to a specific time period of interest only for it to not to get there.

It is your game and your rules and I hope you don't think my comments rude but after 3 years of the other thread failing to reach Rome it's a frustration if we go the wrong direction by 1000 years, and for me archaic Greek is my primary interest so what chance have I?
Edited by DavidUK
01/21/2018 05:24 am
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 Posted 01/21/2018  08:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
what chance have I?


@daviduk, I completely understand your frustration that the original thread (and most likely this one) will not quite make it back to the heyday of the Roman Empire. As medieval coins are my current area of focus, I've chosen to re-boot this thread as I have the most to offer from my own collection.

I would be very happy to see you create a similar thread that starts at the decade of 1 to 10 AD and then moves forward in time with whatever particular rules are most salient. I won't have a ton of posts in this other thread, but would love the opportunity to see history race forward one decade at a time.
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 01/21/2018  09:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok well if we go in the other direction from year 1 I would imagine 47 possible decades before we hit a wall and we still dont get to Greeks.

If we start with Archaic Greeks I am sure many early coins can't be pinned to a specific decade.

So I guess I should start a thread going from some point in late Rome backwards... everyone should have something to contribute there and it has room to run for quite a while without issues.
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 Posted 01/21/2018  09:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I should start a thread going from some point in late Rome backwards


Go for it!
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 01/21/2018  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll get us started with this Double Tourois from the French region Dombes minted in 1595 AD. The obv inscription is "HD BOVRB P D DOMBES M" while the rev inscription is "DOVBLE TOVRNOIS 1595". I have it attributed as Duplessy II-2963 and Ek 28.





Please post your coins minted between 1591 and 1600 today as we will be moving back a decade at midnight!
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Belgium
1142 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2018  11:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add antwerpen2306 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spanish Netherlands : Philippe II (1558 - 1598) :
obv : PHS.D.G.HIS.Z.REX.DUX.B. 15 * 92 : bust at left
rev : DOMINUS MIHI ADIUTOR : coat of arms .
25 mm , 5.2 gr , 3 h , double liard - dubbel oord .
mintmark : star = Maastricht (now the Netherlands) . albert


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 Posted 01/21/2018  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dutch Republic
Leicesterrijksdaalder Type 2 (seven united provinces) - Thaler sized coin
Minted in Overijssel (Transissulania) 1595
Delm 908
OBV Earl of Leicester holding sword and bundle of seven arrows
CONCORDIA RES PARVAE CRESCU NT TRAN
REV 1595
Coat of Arms of the seven provinces of the Dutch Republic
upper row (le=>r) Gelderland/Holland/West-Friesland/Zeeland
lower row (Utrecht/Friesland/Overijssel
MON.ORDIN.PROVIN.FOED.BELG.AD.LEG.IMP


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 Posted 01/22/2018  05:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have one for you :) since its a new day I guess you are onto the decade of 1580's




Elizabeth I 6 pence S2578A 1587 26mm
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 Posted 01/22/2018  08:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add antwerpen2306 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spanish Netherlands : Philippe II : 1558-1598
double liard - dubbel oord
obv:PHS.D.G.HIS.Z.REC.C.AT.86
rev : DOMINUS MIHI ADIUTO (sic).
mint Arras , 1586 , mintmark :a rat .
26 mm , 4.5 gr , 5 h . albert .

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 Posted 01/22/2018  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add orfew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Elizabeth threepence 1581

ELIZABETH 1 [1558-1603] silver threepence [3d]. 5th issue. 1581. coin
(19.02 mm 1.45 g)
latin cross. Spink 2573
Ex: Londinium Coins
Purchased November 26, 2016.



"Cave ab homine unius libri"
Edited by orfew
01/22/2018 10:58 am
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 Posted 01/22/2018  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nicely struck, clear portrait and legends Orfew.
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Belgium
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 Posted 01/22/2018  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Duchy of BRABANT
François de France, Duc d'Anjou et d'Alençcon, Souvereign of the Netherlands 1581-1584
1/2 Daalder (Thaler) Antwerp 1583
OBV: FRAN. F.FRAN.FRA.REG.D.G.DUX.BRA
REV: Crowned Coat of Arms AETERNUM.MEDITANS.DECUS.1(58)3
Reference: Delm 226a


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 Posted 01/22/2018  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
it is quite amazing how most of the Lords and Kings in this starting series are historically connected, let me briefly explain why

In 1566 the Netherlands revolted against the king of Spain, Philip II
this revolt started in the Southern provinces (Steenvoorde in what is today French Flanders) and it was arrested by the arrival of the duke of Alva (the iron duke)
high taxes (the tenth penny) were the origin of

the second revolt in 1572 which started in the Northern Provinces (Brielle in Holland); the Spanish army sieged different cities in Holland and Zeeland, and succeeded only in part ; the North resisted Philip and the siege of Leyden and Alkmaar were relieved by the Dutch ; because of lack of funds Spanish troops started to mutiny and plunder

this led to the fury of Antwerp (november 1575) and the third revolt (1577 the Pacification of Ghent). From that moment on the path of the Northern and Southern Provinces started to diverge

the North officially abjured from Philip which did not happen in the South, moreover, the Duke of Parma (Alexander Farnese) succeeded by brilliant strategy to recapture different cities (Maastricht (1579), Antwerp (1585), Brussels (1580)) to the Spanish side

William of Orange and others tried to unify the Netherlands but the situation became very confusing and the North and South were on different paths; the invitation of the States General to François d'Alençon, Duke of Anjou, to become
Sovereign (1581-1584) of the 17 Provinces (North and South) did not change very much

After the assassination of William of Orange in Delft (1584), the Northern provinces were without leadership and threatened by the military success of Alexander Farnese. Desperate and broke, the Dutch asked Queen Elisabeth of England for support. She sent her intimate friend Robert Dudley, earl of Leicester, to rule over the Northern Netherlands. Unfortunately, Leicester did not do very well in The Netherlands and lost almost all conflicts with Parma who had superior equipment and troops.

Why did this story not end with suppression of the revolt and return to the Spanish rule over the 17 provinces?

The crucial error of Phillip was the plan to invade England with an Armada (1588). This involved the transport of a big invasion army and heavy siege material from The Netherlands to England.
Parma was ordered (much against his will) to mobilize all material Philip needed. After the failure of the Armada mission Parma was bereft of material support for the further conquest of the Northern Provinces. The failure of the Armada mission in 1588 was a turning point in the history of the Netherlands

The current borders between the Netherlands (Northern Provinces in revolt) and Belgium (Spanish Netherlands, reconquered by Parma) are more or less the result of what is described above

The different coins produced in the many cities of the 17 Provinces (Belgium and Holland) do not only include official emissions but also revolting counterstamps, siege coins and propaganda jetons: together they give a vivid account of those stormy decades, more than 350 years ago.
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 Posted 01/22/2018  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A face that was lacking in the series:

the so called Prinsendaalder ("Prince Thaler") featuring William of Orange (1533-1584 see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_the_Silent)

this Morgan dollar sized silver coin was used in the different Northen Provinces for about a 15 years following his assassination in 1584



Although this piece (produced by the Province of Utrecht 1592) would go back in the direction of this tread, this portrait of the Prince is far better than the piece I have from 1584 (Holland); I hope that I am forgiven.
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