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eBay sellers - Beware of buyer coinsland1867 (formerly numisport456)

 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2332 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2018  6:25 pm Show Profile   Check kuh_85's eBay Listings Check kuh_85's eCrater Listings Bookmark this topic Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I would like to say that 99.9% of the people on eBay are honest and courteous. But there's the odd one who just can't seem to manage that.

coinsland1867 (formerly known as numisport456 and based in Montreal) purchased the following item from us on eBay on 19 Feb 2018.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/322893187857


Here are the key 2 pictures from the listing.





After receiving it they initiated a return claiming the coin was damaged during shipping. The following picture was provided by coinsland1867.



Here's what happened
Feb 27 The buyer added tracking details
CarrierCanada Post
Tracking numberTrackingnumber8575735835034481
Feb 21 You approved the request
Feb 21 The buyer (coinsland1867) created a return (5077413846)
Reason for return Arrived damaged
CommentsThe little butterfly is broken. So I want to return the coin and to be fully reimbursed for my purchase.

The following message thread was initiated by the buyer outside of the return request. Note, the actual cost of the return shipping is just $11.


Quote:

From: coinsland1867
To: l300e
Subject: Re: l300e sent a message about 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet #322893187857
Sent Date: 21-Feb-18 17:25:11 EST

Dear l300e,

So, finally you're able to send a shipping label. You should have begin by that...

TY.

- coinsland1867


De : l300e
: coinsland1867
Objet : l300e sent a message about 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet #322893187857
Date d'envoi : 21-Feb-18 16:23:04 EST

Dear coinsland1867,

Returned label attached

- l300e

From: coinsland1867
To: l300e
Subject: Re: l300e has sent a question about item #322893187857, that ended on 17-Feb-18 17:06:07 EST - 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet
Sent Date: 21-Feb-18 13:15:44 EST

Dear l300e,

Sorry, but what you say is not true. I had to return a coin in December and the seller systematically refused to pay the costs for return. So I paid them myself, being sure, like you, that eBay would be on my side and that they would force the seller to reimburse me. In the end, do you know what they did? They congratulated me for being so generous, telling me at the time that I never should have done that, because that money was lost for good (not the full refund, but the costs for return).

The eBay rule is clear on that: you're the one who has to pay for the return costs BEFORE I return it. If you do, I will scan the bill and send it to you. If you don't, I won't return the coin until eBay force you to pay these costs... and if you force me to act this way, you will never get your scan. So please, cooperate with me and I will cooperate with you. It's as simple as that...

- coinsland1867

From: coinsland1867
To: l300e
Subject: Re: l300e has sent a question about item #322893187857, that ended on 17-Feb-18 17:06:07 EST - 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet
Sent Date: 21-Feb-18 12:57:26 EST

Dear l300e,

I have no problem with that, but I have to go to the Post office first. That's why you got to pay for the return costs before...

Thank you.

- coinsland1867


De : l300e
: coinsland1867
Objet : l300e has sent a question about item #322893187857, that ended on 17-Feb-18 17:06:07 EST - 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet
Date d'envoi : 21-Feb-18 12:50:47 EST

Dear coinsland1867,

Please provide a scan of your receipt showing actual shipping cost. Expedited Parcel. I will require this for the insurance claim. L

- l300e

De : l300e
: coinsland1867
Objet : l300e has sent a question about item #322893187857, that ended on 17-Feb-18 17:06:07 EST - 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet
Date d'envoi : 21-Feb-18 13:01:51 EST

Dear coinsland1867,

Sorry, you need to provide me proof of your actual shipping cost before I can reimburse you. Don t worry, if there is any issue eBay will be on your side to ensure you are reimbursed. Feel free to contact them to confirm that. L

- l300e

From: coinsland1867
To: l300e
Subject: Returns: coinsland1867 sent a message about 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet #322893187857
Sent Date: 21-Feb-18 12:47:37 EST

Dear l300e,

I see that you've accepted the return. Thank you for that, but eBay told me that you are responsible for return costs. So would you please send $15.00 to my Paypal account. I'll return the coin as soon as I receive the money.

Thanks again.

- coinsland1867


Soooo, due to all the red flags raised we were careful to video the opening of the return package to confirm that the coin received is the coin shown in the following pictures and not the coin that was sent out.





We then contacted eBay by phone to report "Misuse of the return process". eBay confirmed that this was not the first time coinsland1867 had claimed an item was received damaged/empty and agreed to file a report for investigation. Investigation to be completed in approximately 48 hrs. In addition we used the Report a Buyer option from the Return itself. The text of that 2nd report is below.


Quote:
Buyer claims coin arrived damaged. Makes no mention of damage to the package, the box, the case or the capsule that would account for the damage to the coin inside. Picture provided by buyer shows no visible damage to the case or capsule that would account for the damage to the coin contained inside.

Buyer then proceeded to return a damaged coin that is not the coin that was sent out. Besides the obvious difference of the broken butterfly the coin that was received back from the buyer:
a) Was in a different cardboard sleeve. The sleeve returned has sticker residue on the bottom right of the front. The sleeve that was sent out has no sticker residue.
b) Was in a different case. The case that was sent out has a smudge to right of the capsule location. The case that was returned has no smudge.
c) Was in a different capsule. The capsule that was sent out has a clear bottom. The capsule that was returned has a prominent scratch below the Queen. Note that due to the raised lip around this surface, this could not have been damaged during shipping without also damaging the rims and/or edges of the capsule. In addition the capsule contained a piece of thread that was not there when the coin was shipped. In addition the thread is underneath the coin where it could not be unless the capsule had been opened and the coin removed.

We have pictures showing each of the points above as compared to the original pictures in the listing. And we videoed the opening of the package to prove that the coin described above is the one returned by the buyer.


So if you were one of those sellers unfortunate enough to have be involved with coinsland1867's 'prior history', now may be a good time to contact eBay again!
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2183 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2018  6:42 pm  Show Profile   Check BigSilver's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So upsetting. Sorry that you had to deal with that.
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Canada
2947 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2018  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What a beauty ! Thanks for the heads up we added him to blocked list . Tough enough these days with out a BIDIOT like that!
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15719 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2018  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The first time I ever used
Valued Member
Canada
61 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2018  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Muskokarocks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing. Real dirty. Sorry you have to deal with this. Karma. Such a dumb coin anyway.
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1706 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2018  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Check jdmern's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for posting! I am surprised they told you that the buyer had a history...

Hope it all turns out well, I had a similarly frustrating situation with a different buyer that was not resolved the way I had hoped (nor the way that common sense would seem to point to...)
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1190 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2018  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent work recording before and after, and the details that prove your case. Best of luck getting this resolved in your favor!
Working on: Peace dollars (two to go), US type (Bust era), Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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989 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2018  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paxbrit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just the location of the coin stays in relation to the lettering on the coin says it has been removed from and replaced in the holder. That certainly voids any return obligation, to me.
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2062 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2018  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
KUH .. Thank heavens you took before and after photos. It's not often that Payal/eBay sides with the seller. I have seen your posts for a number of years on here and can certainly see that you are an honest, up-front guy. Congrats on grinding one of dishonest guys that seem to abound much more frequently on eBay.
Valued Member
Canada
226 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2018  02:27 am  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What a sneaky rat . Thanks for the story.

I'm in Montreal. Luckily, haven't run across this eBayer.

I could sen da boys over, bada-bing bada-boom, ya know wad I mean ?
New Member
Canada
17 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2018  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadacollect to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In order to chime in on this post, I've had to create a new coin community username to protect myself from more "item not received / not as described" claims from him (im afraid he will read through my other posts and figure out who I am).

I've had 3 other sellers contact me about this seller through eBay regarding "coinisland1867" (who is probably reading this post as we read this). He has many more eBay accounts (used primarily for purchasing) than you could imagine, including one or more of his friends who he uses to place orders on his behalf.

Reporting coinisland1867 to eBay will do no good. One seller reached out to me in frustration and has actually quit selling on eBay (to coinisland1867's delight I'm sure) after coinisland1867 returned a very expensive coin as an "Item not as described" claim...except the coin case was returned empty (seller lost thousands and I advised he open a police report).

Im not sure what to do...Ive learnt to "pay my taxes" to him for fear of reprisal (more item not received claims or worst.)

Below is another thread regarding him, from one of his other "Main seller" eBay accounts.

http://goccf.com/t/169860&SearchTerms=odovdo123

Blocking him does little good, as he will use another one of his purchasing accounts to get to you...all from his same shipping address.






Edited by canadacollect
03/01/2018 11:41 pm
New Member
Canada
12 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2018  01:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgroundzero to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
coinsland1867 purchased a (2014 GOLD 'Matriarch Moon Mask' Proof $200 Gold Coin) and a (Canada 2014 Matriarch MOON MASK $25 Silver Coin) worth $3000.00.

He claimed that he received empty coin cases and opened a not a described case against me. eBay found in his favour and he got a full refund. This happened in December 2017

In February I found a listing for a 2014 Gold Moon Mask Coin the same coin coinsland1867 claimed not to have received being sold by eBay user name th12coins.

I purchased the least expense item from th12coins and the transaction in my Paypal account showed th12coins having the same first and last name as coinsland1867.

I sent coinsland1867 screen shots of this and he would still not return my coins.

I phoned eBay and reported coinsland1867 to the High Value Claims department and had them look as the message I sent him with the attached screen shots.

I have not had any contact from eBay regarding this matter.




Pillar of the Community
Canada
2947 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2018  02:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Two things
1......Contact Canada Post investigations
2......The Police
Fraudulent use of the Post is a federal Crime. May not get you anywhere but you never know!
Certainly would be worth a try.Good Luck.
New Member
Canada
17 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2018  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadacollect to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I need to protect this seller's identity for obvious reasons.


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Canada
2332 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2018  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Check kuh_85's eBay Listings Check kuh_85's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you everyone for your support and the additional information provided!

Spoke to the eBay Fraud department again and added the additional eBay ID's (th12coins & odovdo123) you provided to the report to their Internal Investigations group (the black hole that we can not communicate directly with). Then spoke to the Escalations group who consider the Appeals on decisions like this one and INR cases. Note that this is a different group and process from the Fraud group and process we were dealing with previously. (Not sure if the two cross paths at any point so my advice is to make sure you talk to both of them.)
A bit early to be talking to them but we got some advice and used it (again with a couple of your points from above!) to send the following response.


Quote:
Hello Normand. I did receive the package from you with the shipping label I provided you. However it did not contain the items you were sent. Please note there are a number of issues noted with your return including, but not limited to, the following.

Picture provided by you shows no visible damage to the case or capsule that would account for the damage to the coin contained inside. You made no mention of damage to the package itself and provided no evidence that the package you received was damaged in any way.

You then proceeded to return the damaged coin you showed in the picture you submitted with your initial return request. That is not the items that were sent out. Besides the obvious difference of the broken butterfly on the coin, the items received back from you:
a) Were in a different cardboard sleeve. The sleeve returned has sticker residue on the bottom right of the front. The sleeve that was sent out has no sticker residue.
b) The sleeve returned has an indented fold on the bottom left corner of the top side of the sleeve. The sleeve you were sent has a raised fold on that corner.
c) Were in a different case. The case that was sent out has a smudge to the right of the capsule location. The case that was returned has no smudge.
d) Were in a different capsule. The capsule that was sent out has a clear bottom. The capsule that was returned has a prominent scratch below the Queen. Note that due to the raised lip around this surface, this could not have been damaged during shipping without also damaging the rims and/or edges of the capsule.
e) In addition the capsule contained a piece of thread behind the Queen's head that was not there when the coin was shipped. As the capsule is air-tight sealed and was not cracked or broken this indicates the coin and capsule returned were not those that were sent out.
f) The coin is in a very different position with respect to the coin stays within the capsule than the one you were sent. The stays lock the coin into place so it can not freely move within the capsule. So again, this indicates that the coin and capsule returned were not those that were sent out.

Please note that I video'd the complete opening of the package to prove that the items described above are the items that were in the package you sent. I have also uploaded pictures of the items you returned showing the details described above. Pictures of the items you were sent are readily available from the listing for comparison.

I should also note that it appears that you own the eBay IDs th12coins and odovdo123 in addition to coinsland1867 and others. I am including this information here for eBay's reference.

So, to answer the question you sent me, I am required to refund you within 6 business days of receiving the items you were sent. You have not yet returned the items you were sent. Please feel free to do so at your convenience within the 14 day limit specified in the return policy of the listing.

Also, please process any further communications with me through the Return Request you opened. Thank you. L

New Member
Canada
17 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2018  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadacollect to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While you're at it, here are some other accounts he has used (and is still using). Note that he has closed some of these, but eBay will be able to track them. Also, note that he is reading these posts and probably reacting accordingly.

numismart123
numisport456
coinsland1867
odovdo123
merlin_93
the_hobbyt_2012
th12coins
Edited by canadacollect
03/03/2018 09:59 am
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