Ebay Sellers - Beware Of Buyer Coinsland1867 (Formerly Numisport456)

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Author	Replies: 96 / Views: 25,818	Page: of 7
kuh_85 Pillar of the Community Canada 2366 Posts	Posted 02/28/2018 6:25 pm I would like to say that 99.9% of the people on ebay are honest and courteous. But there's the odd one who just can't seem to manage that. coinsland1867 (formerly known as numisport456 and based in Montreal) purchased the following item from us on ebay on 19 Feb 2018. https://www.ebay.ca/itm/322893187857 Here are the key 2 pictures from the listing. After receiving it they initiated a return claiming the coin was damaged during shipping. The following picture was provided by coinsland1867. Here's what happened Feb 27 The buyer added tracking details CarrierCanada Post Tracking numberTrackingnumber8575735835034481 Feb 21 You approved the request Feb 21 The buyer (coinsland1867) created a return (5077413846) Reason for return Arrived damaged CommentsThe little butterfly is broken. So I want to return the coin and to be fully reimbursed for my purchase. The following message thread was initiated by the buyer outside of the return request. Note, the actual cost of the return shipping is just $11. Quote: From: coinsland1867 To: l300e Subject: Re: l300e sent a message about 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet #322893187857 Sent Date: 21-Feb-18 17:25:11 EST Dear l300e, So, finally you're able to send a shipping label. You should have begin by that... TY. - coinsland1867 De : l300e À : coinsland1867 Objet : l300e sent a message about 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet #322893187857 Date d'envoi : 21-Feb-18 16:23:04 EST Dear coinsland1867, Returned label attached - l300e From: coinsland1867 To: l300e Subject: Re: l300e has sent a question about item #322893187857, that ended on 17-Feb-18 17:06:07 EST - 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet Sent Date: 21-Feb-18 13:15:44 EST Dear l300e, Sorry, but what you say is not true. I had to return a coin in December and the seller systematically refused to pay the costs for return. So I paid them myself, being sure, like you, that ebay would be on my side and that they would force the seller to reimburse me. In the end, do you know what they did? They congratulated me for being so generous, telling me at the time that I never should have done that, because that money was lost for good (not the full refund, but the costs for return). The ebay rule is clear on that: you're the one who has to pay for the return costs BEFORE I return it. If you do, I will scan the bill and send it to you. If you don't, I won't return the coin until ebay force you to pay these costs... and if you force me to act this way, you will never get your scan. So please, cooperate with me and I will cooperate with you. It's as simple as that... - coinsland1867 From: coinsland1867 To: l300e Subject: Re: l300e has sent a question about item #322893187857, that ended on 17-Feb-18 17:06:07 EST - 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet Sent Date: 21-Feb-18 12:57:26 EST Dear l300e, I have no problem with that, but I have to go to the Post office first. That's why you got to pay for the return costs before... Thank you. - coinsland1867 De : l300e À : coinsland1867 Objet : l300e has sent a question about item #322893187857, that ended on 17-Feb-18 17:06:07 EST - 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet Date d'envoi : 21-Feb-18 12:50:47 EST Dear coinsland1867, Please provide a scan of your receipt showing actual shipping cost. Expedited Parcel. I will require this for the insurance claim. L - l300e De : l300e À : coinsland1867 Objet : l300e has sent a question about item #322893187857, that ended on 17-Feb-18 17:06:07 EST - 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet Date d'envoi : 21-Feb-18 13:01:51 EST Dear coinsland1867, Sorry, you need to provide me proof of your actual shipping cost before I can reimburse you. Don t worry, if there is any issue ebay will be on your side to ensure you are reimbursed. Feel free to contact them to confirm that. L - l300e From: coinsland1867 To: l300e Subject: Returns: coinsland1867 sent a message about 2013 Proof $20 Flora&Fauna #3-Purple Coneflower Eastern Tailed Blue Murano Venet #322893187857 Sent Date: 21-Feb-18 12:47:37 EST Dear l300e, I see that you've accepted the return. Thank you for that, but ebay told me that you are responsible for return costs. So would you please send $15.00 to my Paypal account. I'll return the coin as soon as I receive the money. Thanks again. - coinsland1867 Soooo, due to all the red flags raised we were careful to video the opening of the return package to confirm that the coin received is the coin shown in the following pictures and not the coin that was sent out. We then contacted ebay by phone to report "Misuse of the return process". ebay confirmed that this was not the first time coinsland1867 had claimed an item was received damaged/empty and agreed to file a report for investigation. Investigation to be completed in approximately 48 hrs. In addition we used the Report a Buyer option from the Return itself. The text of that 2nd report is below. Quote: Buyer claims coin arrived damaged. Makes no mention of damage to the package, the box, the case or the capsule that would account for the damage to the coin inside. Picture provided by buyer shows no visible damage to the case or capsule that would account for the damage to the coin contained inside. Buyer then proceeded to return a damaged coin that is not the coin that was sent out. Besides the obvious difference of the broken butterfly the coin that was received back from the buyer: a) Was in a different cardboard sleeve. The sleeve returned has sticker residue on the bottom right of the front. The sleeve that was sent out has no sticker residue. b) Was in a different case. The case that was sent out has a smudge to right of the capsule location. The case that was returned has no smudge. c) Was in a different capsule. The capsule that was sent out has a clear bottom. The capsule that was returned has a prominent scratch below the Queen. Note that due to the raised lip around this surface, this could not have been damaged during shipping without also damaging the rims and/or edges of the capsule. In addition the capsule contained a piece of thread that was not there when the coin was shipped. In addition the thread is underneath the coin where it could not be unless the capsule had been opened and the coin removed. We have pictures showing each of the points above as compared to the original pictures in the listing. And we videoed the opening of the package to prove that the coin described above is the one returned by the buyer. So if you were one of those sellers unfortunate enough to have be involved with coinsland1867's 'prior history', now may be a good time to contact ebay again! Report this Post to the Staff

BigSilver Pillar of the Community United States 2843 Posts	Posted 02/28/2018 6:42 pm So upsetting. Sorry that you had to deal with that. Report this Post to the Staff
Pacificoin Pillar of the Community Canada 5273 Posts	Posted 02/28/2018 6:50 pm What a beauty ! Thanks for the heads up we added him to blocked list . Tough enough these days with out a BIDIOT like that! Report this Post to the Staff
moxking Rest in Peace United States 17900 Posts	Posted 02/28/2018 6:54 pm The first time I ever used Report this Post to the Staff
Muskokarocks Valued Member Canada 63 Posts	Posted 02/28/2018 6:54 pm Thanks for sharing. Real dirty. Sorry you have to deal with this. Karma. Such a dumb coin anyway. Report this Post to the Staff
jdmern Pillar of the Community United States 1949 Posts	Posted 02/28/2018 6:55 pm Thanks for posting! I am surprised they told you that the buyer had a history... Hope it all turns out well, I had a similarly frustrating situation with a different buyer that was not resolved the way I had hoped (nor the way that common sense would seem to point to...) Boardwalk Numismatics http://stores.ebay.com/jdmern/ https://boardwalknumismatics.com Report this Post to the Staff
Alpha2814 Pillar of the Community United States 2003 Posts	Posted 02/28/2018 7:02 pm Excellent work recording before and after, and the details that prove your case. Best of luck getting this resolved in your favor! Report this Post to the Staff
paxbrit Pillar of the Community United States 992 Posts	Posted 02/28/2018 7:04 pm Just the location of the coin stays in relation to the lettering on the coin says it has been removed from and replaced in the holder. That certainly voids any return obligation, to me. Report this Post to the Staff
okiecoiner Pillar of the Community Canada 5460 Posts	Posted 02/28/2018 7:13 pm KUH .. Thank heavens you took before and after photos. It's not often that Payal/eBay sides with the seller. I have seen your posts for a number of years on here and can certainly see that you are an honest, up-front guy. Congrats on grinding one of dishonest guys that seem to abound much more frequently on ebay. Report this Post to the Staff
TerryT Pillar of the Community Canada 799 Posts	Posted 03/01/2018 02:27 am What a sneaky rat . Thanks for the story. I'm in Montreal. Luckily, haven't run across this eBayer. I could sen da boys over, bada-bing bada-boom, ya know wad I mean ? Report this Post to the Staff
canadacollect New Member Canada 20 Posts	Posted 03/01/2018 10:45 pm In order to chime in on this post, I've had to create a new coin community username to protect myself from more "item not received / not as described" claims from him (im afraid he will read through my other posts and figure out who I am). I've had 3 other sellers contact me about this seller through ebay regarding "coinisland1867" (who is probably reading this post as we read this). He has many more ebay accounts (used primarily for purchasing) than you could imagine, including one or more of his friends who he uses to place orders on his behalf. Reporting coinisland1867 to ebay will do no good. One seller reached out to me in frustration and has actually quit selling on ebay (to coinisland1867's delight I'm sure) after coinisland1867 returned a very expensive coin as an "Item not as described" claim...except the coin case was returned empty (seller lost thousands and I advised he open a police report). Im not sure what to do...Ive learnt to "pay my taxes" to him for fear of reprisal (more item not received claims or worst.) Below is another thread regarding him, from one of his other "Main seller" ebay accounts. http://goccf.com/t/169860&SearchTerms=odovdo123 Blocking him does little good, as he will use another one of his purchasing accounts to get to you...all from his same shipping address. Edited by canadacollect 03/01/2018 11:41 pm Report this Post to the Staff
jgroundzero New Member Canada 14 Posts	Posted 03/02/2018 01:23 am coinsland1867 purchased a (2014 GOLD 'Matriarch Moon Mask' Proof $200 Gold Coin) and a (Canada 2014 Matriarch MOON MASK $25 Silver Coin) worth $3000.00. He claimed that he received empty coin cases and opened a not a described case against me. ebay found in his favour and he got a full refund. This happened in December 2017 In February I found a listing for a 2014 Gold Moon Mask Coin the same coin coinsland1867 claimed not to have received being sold by ebay user name th12coins. I purchased the least expense item from th12coins and the transaction in my Paypal account showed th12coins having the same first and last name as coinsland1867. I sent coinsland1867 screen shots of this and he would still not return my coins. I phoned ebay and reported coinsland1867 to the High Value Claims department and had them look as the message I sent him with the attached screen shots. I have not had any contact from ebay regarding this matter. Report this Post to the Staff
Pacificoin Pillar of the Community Canada 5273 Posts	Posted 03/02/2018 02:07 am Two things 1......Contact Canada Post investigations 2......The Police Fraudulent use of the Post is a federal Crime. May not get you anywhere but you never know! Certainly would be worth a try.Good Luck. Report this Post to the Staff
canadacollect New Member Canada 20 Posts	Posted 03/02/2018 08:35 am I need to protect this seller's identity for obvious reasons. Report this Post to the Staff
kuh_85 Pillar of the Community Canada 2366 Posts	Posted 03/02/2018 6:51 pm Thank you everyone for your support and the additional information provided! Spoke to the ebay Fraud department again and added the additional ebay ID's (th12coins & odovdo123) you provided to the report to their Internal Investigations group (the black hole that we can not communicate directly with). Then spoke to the Escalations group who consider the Appeals on decisions like this one and INR cases. Note that this is a different group and process from the Fraud group and process we were dealing with previously. (Not sure if the two cross paths at any point so my advice is to make sure you talk to both of them.) A bit early to be talking to them but we got some advice and used it (again with a couple of your points from above!) to send the following response. Quote: Hello Normand. I did receive the package from you with the shipping label I provided you. However it did not contain the items you were sent. Please note there are a number of issues noted with your return including, but not limited to, the following. Picture provided by you shows no visible damage to the case or capsule that would account for the damage to the coin contained inside. You made no mention of damage to the package itself and provided no evidence that the package you received was damaged in any way. You then proceeded to return the damaged coin you showed in the picture you submitted with your initial return request. That is not the items that were sent out. Besides the obvious difference of the broken butterfly on the coin, the items received back from you: a) Were in a different cardboard sleeve. The sleeve returned has sticker residue on the bottom right of the front. The sleeve that was sent out has no sticker residue. b) The sleeve returned has an indented fold on the bottom left corner of the top side of the sleeve. The sleeve you were sent has a raised fold on that corner. c) Were in a different case. The case that was sent out has a smudge to the right of the capsule location. The case that was returned has no smudge. d) Were in a different capsule. The capsule that was sent out has a clear bottom. The capsule that was returned has a prominent scratch below the Queen. Note that due to the raised lip around this surface, this could not have been damaged during shipping without also damaging the rims and/or edges of the capsule. e) In addition the capsule contained a piece of thread behind the Queen's head that was not there when the coin was shipped. As the capsule is air-tight sealed and was not cracked or broken this indicates the coin and capsule returned were not those that were sent out. f) The coin is in a very different position with respect to the coin stays within the capsule than the one you were sent. The stays lock the coin into place so it can not freely move within the capsule. So again, this indicates that the coin and capsule returned were not those that were sent out. Please note that I video'd the complete opening of the package to prove that the items described above are the items that were in the package you sent. I have also uploaded pictures of the items you returned showing the details described above. Pictures of the items you were sent are readily available from the listing for comparison. I should also note that it appears that you own the ebay IDs th12coins and odovdo123 in addition to coinsland1867 and others. I am including this information here for ebay's reference. So, to answer the question you sent me, I am required to refund you within 6 business days of receiving the items you were sent. You have not yet returned the items you were sent. Please feel free to do so at your convenience within the 14 day limit specified in the return policy of the listing. Also, please process any further communications with me through the Return Request you opened. Thank you. L Report this Post to the Staff
canadacollect New Member Canada 20 Posts	Posted 03/02/2018 7:01 pm While you're at it, here are some other accounts he has used (and is still using). Note that he has closed some of these, but ebay will be able to track them. Also, note that he is reading these posts and probably reacting accordingly. numismart123 numisport456 coinsland1867 odovdo123 merlin_93 the_hobbyt_2012 th12coins Edited by canadacollect 03/03/2018 09:59 am Report this Post to the Staff
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