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is my coin fake or not ?

 
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 Posted 05/16/2018  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Check chafemasterj's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add chafemasterj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Bret… Would this scanner pick up on a tungsten core surrounded by gold? I think that was the OPs biggest fear.
http://goccf.com/t/303774
Check out my counterstamped Lincoln Cent collection:
http://goccf.com/t/303507
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 Posted 05/16/2018  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely. Scanners tell you the exact metal content of the entire object. I first saw one used at a coin show when I was selling a couple of 1oz gold bars. We agreed on a sale at spot, the buyer got out his scan gun and he scanned both bars. I've since seen them used by the bullion buyers/sellers on several occasions.
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 Posted 05/16/2018  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe this is false -- scanners only analyze the surface. Plating of sufficient quality and thickness would fool any scanner.
Working on: Peace dollars (two to go), US type (Bust era), Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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 Posted 05/16/2018  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Check Foxwoods Man's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From SD Bullion:


Quote:
The Precious Metal Testing Scanner has many advantages:
Can be used with any metal.

Reads the metal bulk—not coatings and plating.

Can read through packaging.

Very fast—1 second results.

No wet chemistry, no consumables, no scraping or filing.

Inexpensive to buy and use.

Detects and prevents precious metal fraud.

Can assist in determining numismatic authenticity.

Easy to use, easy to program for additional sample types.

Portable—long battery life.

Durable—no maintenance required.


https://sdbullion.com/gold-and-silv...a-metalytics
Edited by Foxwoods Man
05/16/2018 3:02 pm
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 Posted 05/16/2018  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, this is a different type of scanner than XRF, which is what I was thinking of. XRF comes up often in these threads -- this one is new to me. Thanks for posting that!
Working on: Peace dollars (two to go), US type (Bust era), Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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 Posted 05/16/2018  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheBurnz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Still think sending to PCGS is cheaper. Whats this device cost, 10 grand...
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 Posted 05/16/2018  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Still think sending to PCGS is cheaper.
I agree.


Quote:
Whats this device cost, 10 grand...
Twice that.

Of course, if you are a big buyer or dealer it is probably the better investment since you need confirmation more immediately.
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 Posted 05/16/2018  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Check Foxwoods Man's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Click on the link provided..$750
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 Posted 05/16/2018  4:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did not see your link earlier. I thought we were referencing the one in Bret's video.
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 Posted 05/16/2018  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Guys, this is simple. You can get free scanning if you have a hot wife or girlfriend. Take her to the coin show with you. Look around and find a bullion dealer with a scanner and then get her to ask him to scan the coin(s) to verify that they're real. 9/10 times, they'll do it for free. Of course, your wife or girlfriend might find some jewelry that she wants, so that might ruin your cost. On second thought, perhaps it's better to just ask if they'll scan it for you and pay a few bucks if necessary. Or, as previously stated, send it off to an authentication service. Don't forget that you'll need to pay shipping insurance both ways.
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 Posted 05/17/2018  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Absolutely. Scanners tell you the exact metal content of the entire object. I first saw one used at a coin show when I was selling a couple of 1oz gold bars. We agreed on a sale at spot, the buyer got out his scan gun and he scanned both bars. I've since seen them used by the bullion buyers/sellers on several occasions.


I used to think the same thing. Not true.

Had it proven to me at the last FUN show CCF set up at. Guy had a Chinese tungsten core plated gold gar that was cut in half. Plated about 20 microns. Read as gold all day long on the plating with a 17K hand held XRF scanner.
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 Posted 05/17/2018  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Check chafemasterj's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add chafemasterj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That makes more sense to me. The scientist in me was trying to figure out how a scanner could possibly scan the entire mass of an object.
http://goccf.com/t/303774
Check out my counterstamped Lincoln Cent collection:
http://goccf.com/t/303507
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 Posted 05/17/2018  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
bobby, not questioning what you saw. It just doesn't make sense to me how they could sell a scanner to anyone if it only scanned the surface. I don't see people investing thousands upon thousands of dollars in them for what would basically be no return on investment.

A scanner can scan the entire mass of an object just the same as it can scan a few microns in to the same object. Think about how a CAT scan machine works. It can tell you density all the way through an object to create a 3D image. The frequency of the rays that reflect back to the scanner let it know which metals have been detected.
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 Posted 05/17/2018  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, The guy that showed me was selling them. His name was Mark Fashian. He told me portables go 8-12 microns at best and that depends on the metal because some metals resist/deflect the rays more than others.
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 Posted 05/17/2018  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a manufacturer of XRF scanners: https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/webi...r-regulaton/

Quote:
Question: You mentioned XRF is surface technique? What is the depth of measurement? Can you analyse metal under the paint or anodized layer (aluminum alloy)?
For light plastics or light organic materials, penetration is on the order of mm or cm. For heavier plastics (like PVC), or plastics with metallic additives (like Ti, Zn), or aluminum alloys, penetration is on the order of a few mm. For heavier metal alloys (Ti, Fe, etc) penetration is on the order of 100s of um, and for the heaviest metals (gold, lead, etc) penetration is a few 10s of um.

The "X" in "XRF" stands for X-ray, and like most forms of light it cannot penetrate metal very far. (Think: why bones in X-rays are white -- the film is not exposed to the rays that did not penetrate the bone.)
Working on: Peace dollars (two to go), US type (Bust era), Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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