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Insane Russian Mint Coin "Errors"

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 1,819Next Topic  
Valued Member
Russian Federation
408 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  05:15 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add flying_teapot to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. Previously posted in Main Coin Forum. ***



Well, I want to tell you what insane things happens on russian Moscow mint. Can't stay silent, hope I picked correct forum category.
I see all these coins having great selling success abroad for a very decent prices.
You may already see wrong planchets coins, like this:
5 rub on 10 rub bimetallic planchet

10rub on 25rub planchet

But it is not very insane, huh.
Short brief: we had 1 kopek coin since 1997. They stopped to produce it in 2009, and after that they made mintage in 2014, for the use in Crimea (in fact nobody use 1 kopek coin - because 60 kopeks = 1 cent).
So, what's the story - year ago we had 1 and 5 kopek 2017 appearance. Not in change, in internet, someone showed both on forum. In a short time after they appeared on sale on various marketplaces - firstly price was ~100$ for both, but in a few months it started to grow. Actual price for this pair is 250$.

The reason of my indignation is fact that it was produced on a Moscow mint (nobody here doubt in it), had a small mintage, about 25000-50000, not more. And it all happened "without any notice from Moscow mint". Few folks sent official letter to them, and they saying "we didn't mint kopeks in 2017". After a few months director of Moscow mint was fired (dismissed).
I'm saying that nobody doubt that these coins were made on our mint because there's a lot of proofs of it - and main proof is very remarkable quality.
I know we can imagine that someone made it in his garage, but trust me - in Russia this is impossible. Or quality will be different at least in small details, and at last - it will be very poor.
-------------------------------------
So, thank you for reading to this sentence - now I'm explaining why I'm making this thread.
THIS

Reverse is modern 10 rub. Planchet is modern 10 rub, but obverse is from pre-war ussr 20 kopeks.
Just imagine what level of insanity do they have
This slab number is not availble on RNGA website, but yet. One person called there and asked - and they said this slab is genuine and this coin exists.
The main conclusion is very said. They still have old dies and even can use it to make this insane mule coins.
Or even make a new, small mintage of USSR-Russia key dates coins And nobody will spot it because they will be genuine too.
I will stay in touch with you and will notice about new insane russian "errors" when they appear.
This is very intresting topic, and I bet you won't find most part of this info in english.
Edited by flying_teapot
11/23/2018 05:18 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4114 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  06:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These sort of "errors" are rumored to have happened in United States and Canadian mints. I find it very believable that someone inside the mint made them for their personal benefit.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4562 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  07:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a very interesting read flying_teapot. Thank you for posting and sharing.
Member: ANA and NGC
My Want list: http://goccf.com/t/188411
Valued Member
Russian Federation
408 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2018  12:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add flying_teapot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also we have obverse-obverse and reverse-reverse errors. 1 ruble denomination is very popular with this error, but it's not error in every case!
Here's how common ruble looks like.
Old design, 1997-2015. In 2009 they started to use another metal planchet, but don't mind.

New design, since 2016

And, depending on design the errors look like this:



So, the point is that not all of them were made accidentally.
Non magnetic planchet errors of that kind are generally recognized as ok coins. It's 1997 or 98, if coin has both sides with a date If not, you can easily spot pre 2009 rubles by weird green tarnish. People sometimes find it in circulation even now! But almost all of them were pulled from circulation years ago. Error mintage unknown, price about 100$.
This kind of errors on 2010-2018 is suspicious. They are not generally recognized as real errors.
Especially 2016-18 "error" rubles with a new design!
Nobody found it in circulation, bag hunters didn't see it in original mint bags. That "error" coins just appear on various marketplace websites.
When 2016 rubles obverse-obverse (that side with a double eagle and a year) first appeared, price was about 100$.
But then, in 2017 market was literally flooded with these "errors". It is continuing in 2018 story. Current price for this "error" - 30-40$. Sometimes you can get it on auction for a less price.
Russian collectors have strong hatred to this artificial 2016-18 errors. If someone selling it, you oftenly can see how random people blaming seller in comments!
As I already sad, irrefutable evidence that these "errors" are made intentionaly, not accidentally is a fact that bag hunters (we don't have rolls, mint package is a plastic bags now) never find obverse-obverse coins. Apparently, mintage of obverse-obverse and reverse-reverse 2016-18 rubles is much more than is was in 1997-98, but nobody have seen it in change or mint bags.
Edited by flying_teapot
11/24/2018 12:29 am
Valued Member
Russian Federation
408 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2018  02:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add flying_teapot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very fresh info about 10rub-20ussr kopeks I was posting yesterday.
https://www.wolmar.ru/auction/1347/3299616?all=1
It was sold 22 November for 41 977 rubles. It's ~650$.
Original description:
10 rubles/20 kopeks RR Fe/Br
Exclusive rare coin.
Obverse 20 kopeks ussr 1937-46, reverse 10 rubles Russia 2009-2017. Steel planchet with brass, 5.71gr.
Maybe this coin is a mint test specimen.
Rare collection thing!
RNGA slabbed.
-------------------
Test specimen, huh, cool Folks making good money using government institution
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United States
11521 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2018  03:08 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that this seems to be an outbreak of unchecked "mint-assisted" errors. As you mentioned, though, the market for them depends on the supply and if the perpetrators get too greedy, then they drive down the "value" of their own product.

Quality control and security at the mints needs to be strengthened. Beyond that, we can only talk about the output.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020

Oh that I was where I would be,
Then I would be where I am not,
Here I am where I must be,
Go where I would, I can not.
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
3461 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2018  03:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! Where did they even find a die from the 1930s? Or did they make a new one just for this silly thing?

OTOH, I'm not all that surprised about a 10 ruble coin on a 25 ruble planchet; IIRC, the planchets are pretty much the same size.
There's a somewhat famous error a while back where a bunch of bimetallic 10 ruble coins ended up with edge reeding intended for 25 ruble coins (but correct edge lettering). I finally got one of those for my collection this August (cost me about $3).
Valued Member
Russian Federation
408 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2018  12:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add flying_teapot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, appeared they storing old dies somewhere.
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