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Strange Mark's On Morgans

 
 
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 Posted 01/09/2019  10:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add gotboostedvr6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Picked these up today from the cull bin. I thought these marks were PMD but having second thoughts.





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 Posted 01/09/2019  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gotboostedvr6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Close ups




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 Posted 01/09/2019  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gotboostedvr6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And what's going on with this one's reverse? Details are very mushy. Weight is spot on and obverse looks as it should.

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 Posted 01/09/2019  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The raised lines on your first two Morgans are die cracks (and a small die break in the third close up pic), which are very common on 1921 Morgans. The 1921-S looks like PMD on the reverse.
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 Posted 01/10/2019  01:47 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with die cracks on the first two. I can't tell about the '21-S without a closeup of something in question.
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 Posted 01/10/2019  10:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NDBirdman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lots of die cracks, I like those! This coin looks like it has spent most it's life in a coin bag receiving a lot of damage. Might be some double die going on but the pics/condition of the coins make it hard to see. IMHO, I'd think melt value, but that's just me. If I had the coins in my hands I might think otherwise. I might use the first one as a hole filler until I could find a nicer one, the S, I'd have to think hard about that one, but again, IMHO.
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Edited by NDBirdman
01/10/2019 10:50 am
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 Posted 01/10/2019  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those are die cracks on the reverse. Very common on 1921 Morgans.

Need better pics of the '21-S to check if die cracks or PMD. Hard to tell from the current images provided.
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 Posted 01/10/2019  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gotboostedvr6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree the marks are definitely die cracks. I've never seen die cracks on my coins so this is a first for me.

Getting back to the mushy reverse on the 21s. The obverse looks legit and not messed with. The reverse does not have an obvious, I've been abused or altered look to it.

I'm thinking grease filled die?




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 Posted 01/13/2019  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gotboostedvr6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any thoughts on that reverse?
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 Posted 01/13/2019  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add llewellin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What is the question, exactly? There is a distracting scratch across the eagle's tummy
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 Posted 01/13/2019  6:18 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The flatly-struck breast is common on 1921-dated Morgans which were hubbed based on a modified and re-engraved 1878 "2nd Reverse of 1878" 7 tailfeather/parallel arrow feather reverse die.

In 1879 (for most issues) the breast feathers were modified to be sharper and more easily discernible, a change which lasted through 1904. A much smaller number of S and CC branch-mint Morgans were made using the "old" flat-breasted reverse design through 1880, to the best of my remembrance.

The other lines you are seeing are known as "die cracks" and occur when the dies used to strike the coins develop stress fractures for a variety of reasons such as improper hardening, impurities, high strike pressure, age, and wear over time. The cracks show up as RAISED lines on the surface of the coin, as opposed to post-strike damage/scratches and gouges which will be LOWER than the surface of the coin.

I would need better pictures (in natural light, no flash) to tell you more about the 21-S.

The rim damage above M in AMERICA in one of the coins you listed is post-strike damage. In between the E and R on the same coin, you can see a die chip in line with the crack, where a small piece of the die actually chipped off.
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 Posted 01/14/2019  01:08 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am not sure, but with the additional pics, the '21-S has the appearance of having been plated (especially the reverse). I don't know about coins only being plated on one side unless they were encased. Plating would cause the "mushy" details and what appears to be an absence of original luster.
Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
-Lucretius

"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
-Kurdt Kobain

My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
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 Posted 02/05/2019  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gotboostedvr6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are better pics of the reverse.




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 Posted 02/05/2019  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are some die polishing lines, which are scratches in the die that cause raised lines on the coin that appear to travel under the devices.
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 Posted 02/06/2019  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Aside from the common die cracks Morgan's seem to have, I'd think the marks are typical. Don't forget these heavy, soft metal coins fell into a hopper by the thousands. Then dumped into a counting machine where they were bagged. Bags stacked(without much care) numerous times between mint and bank vault. With all that going on it's nearly impossible to find flawless examples. Those that somehow survive are priced accordingly.

That aside, you have some nice pieces. I also have to agree that at least one looks to have been polished.
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