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Has Anyone Seen This Counterstamp Before?

 
 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2019  10:43 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
It's on the reverse of an 1860 dollar.
It references LT. COL. DORSEY BENDER

Hi, my name is MikeF and I'm a degenerate coin collector. I also like adventure, big trucks, long walks on the beach and the Kansas City Chiefs.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6999 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2019  10:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe it was used as a Dog Tag.
I bet Civil War collectors would be interested in it.
Nice find.
Valued Member
United States
217 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2019  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Badger Mint to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it is an actual relic from the civil war and not something created to look like one, that I a very special piece. Dorsey Pender was a Captain in March of 1861 and a Colonel in May, so that gives a date range for when it could have been made. what is the date of the host coin? Contact john Kralevich of Kralevich Americana, he has much knowledge on these pieces.
Valued Member
United States
217 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2019  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Badger Mint to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, I see you listed the date in the body. Great piece
Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2019  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Son of a gun, it's a fake.
Hi, my name is MikeF and I'm a degenerate coin collector. I also like adventure, big trucks, long walks on the beach and the Kansas City Chiefs.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2019  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Source: http://assets.listpilot.net/money/f..._v01n15.html

MORE ON FAKE CONFEDERATE ID DISCS


Fantasy CSA ID Tag obverse Fantasy CSA ID Tag reverse

Alan V. Weinberg writes:


The fantasy CSA engraved US coin Confederate dog tags have been around now for easily 30 years. They come on cast counterfeit Seated half dollars and Seated dollars and there are approximately 4 or 5 varieties with similar "hand engraved" recipient name and ranks but always crude CSA engraved in the center.

I distinctly recall several decades ago first seeing one in Joe Levine's PCAC auction catalogue shortly after seeing one at a flea market. Joe promptly withdrew it. Even John Ford called me to get my opinion on one of these. I told him that even the coin was a cast counterfeit, a fact he had not realized.


Author Peter Bertram submitted this note reminding us about his booklet on the Fantasy Confederate ID Tags. Thanks! -Editor

Fake Confederate ID Discs cover I wrote a little 13-page booklet about these bad boys back in 2002, complete with illustrations and diagnostics of eight specimens I'd encountered (I think I've still got 'em around here somewhere). They were all castings, possibly coin silver, and all had differences in their vertical and horizontal axes, giving them a slightly oval appearance.

Specifically, the half-dollar size fakes were Capt Nathan Boone, 12th Kentucky || Robert F. Bunting, 5th Texas Cavalry || Lt. William M. Forrest, no rgt noted || Thomas Taylor, 5th Louisiana || A.L.P. Vairin, Second Mississippi Vol. || Lt James B. Washington, no rgt noted. The dollar size fakes were Col. Joseph Mayo, 3rd Va. Inf and Lt. Col. Dorsey Pender, 1st North Carolina Regiment. At the time a "General Dorsey Pender" disc was rumored but I could never seem to run one down so I mention the fake but can't confirm it actually existed.

I find it quite interesting that these apparently still not very well known fake Confederate ID Discs are still showing up in the collector marketplace. In addition to Dave Schenkman's TAMs article, my little Fake Confederate ID Discs was sold in booklet form, reviewed in Antique and Collectors Reproduction News, North South Trader's Civil War, The Virginia Numismatist, our esteemed E-Sylum, in a Coin World article, and it's still available at http://www.ConfederateNumismatica.com for a measly $5.
Hi, my name is MikeF and I'm a degenerate coin collector. I also like adventure, big trucks, long walks on the beach and the Kansas City Chiefs.
Valued Member
United States
491 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2019  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
May just be a counterfeit. However, these early pieces are quite collectible as such. I'd buy it.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3530 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2019  12:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
May just be a counterfeit. However, these early pieces are quite collectible as such. I'd buy it.


Granted that fakes are collectible (I've collected them), but "early?" If one considers fakes made within the past thirty years as early, nineteenth century fakes qualify as medieval.

I recall having done some CCF posts on these so-called "Pender" fakes in the past. I've yet to see one on a genuine silver coin. The fakers who made these purposely used names of Confederate soldiers. Here are a few similar fakes ....





Here's one of these fakes that recently sold on eBay for $204. I wrote to the seller who, with info I provided, confirmed that the stamp was modern. He said the coin was genuine, silver. It's conceivable that one or more genuine coins were used to enhance the deception. To his credit, the seller offers a 14 day return. Here's a link, followed by pics of the piece ....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1861-O-Sea...43663.l44720




For further reading .... https://www.coinbooks.org/v20/esylu...0n39a07.html

Edited by ExoGuy
02/21/2019 12:49 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3530 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2019  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Mike .... I believe I saw the "1870-CC" on eBay. Given its price and non-merchant stamps, I didn't examine it closely. Judging from your pics, it looks to possibly be a cast counterfeit? Might John J. Ford have passed it along to a friend, named George? J.J. Ford did have many counterstamps in his collection. Regardless, pieces like this one don't intrigue me.

I do have a couple of contemporary counterfeits, mid-1800's and struck not cast, in my collection of 19th century merchant counterstamps. I suspect that, if the 1870-CC is a cast copy, it's a 20th century creation.
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