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What's Up With The Significant Retail Price Differences Quoted By TPGs.

 
 
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United States
312 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2019  3:47 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I spend a good deal of time drooling over the Heritage Auction listings. I am even fortunate to win an occasional auction.
I learn a lot by studying the listings. It is a good way to improve my grading skills, learn about certain coins and types and series. Heritage tells you almost everything you would want to know including links to the specific information pages published by NCG and PCGS. It also provides a great deal of pricing information. Only the information on wholesale prices seems lacking.
What I have noticed is that the retail prices quoted by NGC are almost always 10% more, sometimes quite a bit more than that, than the retail prices quoted by PCGS. Occasionally the NGC price is higher, but it is infrequent enough to be surprising.
Being the conservative sort about such things, I use the PCGS price, and view anything above that as a premium that may be very reasonable (CAC) but which is a more important part of the purchasing decision. Also being the curious sort, I wonder why the NGC retail prices are so consistently higher than PCGS.
A couple things about me as a collector that could be irrelevant but also might have some importance: I am currently working on a comprehensive Classic American type set. That usually means the highest grades I can afford of common date coins. The coins I buy are usually silver and I know less about the other metals. I have no traditional rarities. My observations may not apply to coins other than the less expensive, higher grade coins I usually purchase.
Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts to help satisfy my curiosity, I'd love to know them.
Valued Member
United States
435 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2019  4:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add txgolfer56 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Check other price guides like numismedia.com and greysheet.com. You can also look up auction sale prices and ebay sale prices.
Actively collecting US Type coins and Morgans. Thinking about LWC upgrades.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
30351 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2019  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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United States
5843 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2019  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like greysheet
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12762 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2019  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ironically it's the PCGS coins that generally sell for more. The price guides are just that guides. If you go to the PCGS site and than go to the NGC site, the PCGS site is far superior and does appear they put more effort into it and it's features.

That said doing a price guide is a lot of work to try and keep up with everything, you would need several full time employees. NGC I believe just draws from Numismedia which is okay for ball parks but doesn't seem to get updated much and has some wide gaps in grade such as one price for all of VF which really isn't helpful as a 35 can and often will sell for significantly more than a 20. And then the NGC world coins I believe is just from Krause for those prices.

I really don't use the NGC price guide ever and wouldn't put any weight into them having their numbers higher, it could be anything from they just want to or just flat out lack of attention to it. It would be better to just look at the Heritage sold items if you are already on there seeing this information
Fire A.J. Preller
Pillar of the Community
United States
2429 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2019  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It appears that in recent years PCGS has made an effort to have their price guide reflect the retail price of coins in PCGS holders. I have noticed if the coin has a green sticker the PCGS guide is often close to value. The Heritage realized auction prices is still the best way to place a value on a PCGS or NGC coin.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18720 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2019  08:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TPGS's attempt to show high prices in an attempt to draw more customers. If you think a coin is worth a lot, more of a reason to have it slabbed.
just carl
Valued Member
New Zealand
148 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2019  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aoraki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Firstly, if you search up a specific coin and grade (either current or past sales), Heritage does list wholesale pricing.

Secondly, like basebal21, I pay no attention at all to TPG (or any other) price guides. Recent auction sale prices provide the true, current market value. Judgement must be used, of course, to account for superior/inferior coins within a grade.
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United States
312 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2019  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all your input. I have learned quite a lot. I am now going to use the greysheets as my baseline price guide.
I have done a good deal of playing around with the various auction results and price guides, largely to determine if I had drastically overpaid for anything. Fortunately, I am not hyperventilating, and in fact did okay.
I did seem to notice that many EBay buy it now sellers seem to peg their prices at or around the PCGS price guide price. Often this is quite a bit above the greysheets. Maybe this is because I only search for PCGS coins. (Call me whatever, but I like everything to match).
I have been very happy with my experiences with Heritage. I have recently won two auctions and made one purchase from inventory. All of those acquisitions came in below greysheet but above wholesale, which I find more than fair. In making my bids and purchase I relied principally on Heritage's reports of its and others' auction results during the last two years.
So I guess I have been able to drift in more or less the right direction after learning the hard lesson that I have absolutely no business buying raw coins at EBay auctions. Thanks to your thoughts and the new sources you have told me about I will be better equipped to make future buying decisions.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12762 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2019  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I am now going to use the greysheets as my baseline price guide.
I have done a good deal of playing around with the various auction results and price guides, largely to determine if I had drastically overpaid for anything. Fortunately, I am not hyperventilating, and in fact did okay.
I did seem to notice that many EBay buy it now sellers seem to peg their prices at or around the PCGS price guide price. Often this is quite a bit above the greysheets. Maybe this is because I only search for PCGS coins. (Call me whatever, but I like everything to match).


Just remember greysheet is supposed to be dealer to dealer. They have come out with a new retail one. Some dealers will use greysheet for all their transactions but I lot will just buy off it and sell off retail.

As far as eBay, just remember free shipping isn't actually free so that has to get built into the costs as do the rising fees. A lot people will price things off of what has sold before and taking comparative quality into consideration, but some will have space cadet pricing for no reason
Fire A.J. Preller
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United States
312 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2019  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, basebal21
Didn't realize greysheet was dealer to dealer. I thought it was customer selling to dealer. Very big difference.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1458 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2019  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Check Andrew99's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Greysheet bid is close to dealer to collector pricing. Maybe a bit low. Dealer to dealer is below bid.
The collection is in your mind. Dispose of your albums and free your mind from the tyranny of holes.
New Member
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2019  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add superjess to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TPG's are in business to make a profit. They want you to think that your coin is more valuable because it's in their holder. They sell a sense of security on authenticity and grading that is reflected in their price guides. TPG's also grade to the value of the coin instead of the technical grade. Some coins end up selling for more than the grade based on eye appeal, even though it has already been factored in.

The true price of anything is the amount someone is willing to pay. Heritage and eBay are good indicators of actual value. However, prices can significantly fluctuate due to a collector wanting a specific coin. If a collector wants an MS-65 Morgan dollar with beautiful rainbow bulls-eye toning; They will find a way to get it.
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