I am kindof a newbie in getting coins graded at the TPG's. I have some coins that look borderline cleaned. is it worth risking getting it graded in the chance that you get a detail's grade or just get it genuine graded? If I went to sell them would I get more for the genuine grade or the details grade?
General rule of thumb is that if a coin is not worth 200.00, its not worth sending in and paying the fees etc.
Also realize the words of wisdom said here many times on this forum - buy the coin, not the slab.
I mention this b/c you said you are new to TPGs. Nowadays newbies come into the hobby being exposed to places like eBay where slabs are all over the place. So newbies just typically start to see these companies as a vital part of the hobby.
Know that slabbing is an optional service as a sideline to the hobby. These companies are businesses that exist to make money from collectors. The more you look into them, the more you will find the system is very subjective - as they themselves claim. Here is an eye opener for newbies.
Note the guy in this video still uses the companies b/c its smart to maximize profits when you sell coins (he and I emailed about this). The trend of the masses is generally to pay more for a slabbed coin. Unfortunately a lot of people, in blind faith, pay for the slab and not the coin. But there are some that know to buy the coin and not the slab.
As an added note, I will also say that if someone enjoys slabs for what they are - then all the more power to them. Hobbies are about what we enjoy.
- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool. - How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? - Real men play Fizzbin.
Depends what it is. You can select to have them just be labeled genuine and not graded on normal submissions. Unless it's some hoard most people choose to have the grade level displayed too as that does matter price wise.
Quote: DETAILS grades are NGC. GENUINE is PCGS.
They're the same thing, just different terminology. And the same result, reduction of value by at least 50%.
This isn't really accurate. The PCGS slabs will mention genuine but many will say Details as well.
Quote: General rule of thumb is that if a coin is not worth 200.00, its not worth sending in and paying the fees etc.
That's really not true in all honesty, that's an arbitrary number someone mentioned on forums long ago and it stuck.
From a strictly mathematical standpoint the only question is will the cost of grading be recovered from having it graded. Obviously you can't recover that if the cost is less than the grading, but there are plenty of coins under 200 where the cost of having them graded is more than recovered. There's even coins under 100 where that is true. Under 50 it gets hard but can be done.
All that said, the cheaper the coin the better your own skill has to be as the margin of error shrinks considerably and if you're off by a grade you can easily end up eating a loss.
Quote: The more you look into them, the more you will find the system is very subjective - as they themselves claim.
Grading itself is subjective, that has nothing to do with how the TPGs operate.
Quote: Here is an eye opener for newbies.
It's really not, I actually would say not to watch it at all until they understand more, otherwise they can find out the hard way
Even though I consider myself a newbie I have realized that the TPG's grading is very subjective. But it seems dealers get better grading than individuals would get. I sent in a hundred 2018 reverse proof sets for bulk submission(like a dealer would do) and 65% of my coins came back 70's. Now I doubt I would get that many if I had sent em in individually. What opened my eyes in the video posted by Earle42 is that grading probably would/should be done by AI(artificial intelligents with scanning device) so grading would be more accurate.
Quote: Even though I consider myself a newbie I have realized that the TPG's grading is very subjective
Grading period contains subjective aspects of it that is nothing unique to the TPGs, but saying very is a bit of an overstatement.
Quote: But it seems dealers get better grading than individuals would get.
No they don't. It doesn't matter who submits the coin. The only reason dealers would get better grades is because of their experience they pick out better coins to send.
Quote: What opened my eyes in the video posted by Earle42 is that grading probably would/should be done by AI(artificial intelligents with scanning device) so grading would be more accurate.
No it shouldn't. It's been done before and failed. Technical grading is still subjective and completely removing eye appeal from grading would be the absolute worst thing that could happen. Grading is much, much more than just counting marks.
The ONLY place where AI could make sense would be ultramoderns with 69s vs 70s. You don't want it doing anything more than in terms of grading.
Most people really don't even understand what would actually happen removing humans from it entirely for AI. You don't want a beautiful gem graded the same as an ugly dog just because they both have two ticks. Regardless the AI would have to be taught with coins graded by humans and hacking into it's code or fooling it with the best fakes would be easier than humans.
Would you want a computer telling you what painting you're supposed to like at the museum? Same there here, not every human jobs needs to be replaced with computers nor are they capable of doing every job better.
Also, remember the limitations of the current machine vision algorithms. They classify based on a training set, say you want to train it to find a dog. You train the neural network on 100s or 1000s of identified images: Dog/NoDog so it can find Dog/NoDog in an arbitrary image.
Where do you get the 1000s of images of coins in every grade?
I kinda like the Details coins more than the Genuine. Am always curious about what the details are, and how the TPG sees the problem(s). Sometimes if a coin has several issues, they will only mention one in the description, and sometimes they will mention several.Genuine is just a bit too broad brushed for me, I want the details
Personally I love PCGS holders, and my storage is set up for them. If I have a coin I love, and plan to keep forever, I'll send it in to be slabbed even if I know it's going to get genuine with qualifiers. It doesn't bother me at all. I just like having them in holders. Now if I'm going to sell it, then I wouldn't pay the expense, I'd just take good pics, and list my suspicions (that it was cleaned, damaged, etc) and let the next person decide if they want to pay the $40 to holder it.
Quote: Where do you get the 1000s of images of coins in every grade?
I'm sure PCGS/NGC have adequately large databases of high quality photos that could train a robust classification algorithm for all but the rarest coins. For these such as some rare EAC you'd want to grade by hand anyways but I'm sure this would save them a ton of time on moderns if the photography was standardized well enough.