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Help Identify Medieval Denar

 
 
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Valued Member
Netherlands
68 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2019  1:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add pinpoint to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
All info welcome of this unknown Denar
Weight : 0,80 gr. / diameter : 17 mm / silver
Coin found in WalloniŽ , Belgium
av.: Person ( Bishop ?) with earring , in the right hand staff / scepter.
rev. : 2 figures sitting at a table , cross / standard between

Regards , Pinpoint


*** Moved by Staff moved to a more appropriate forum. ***
Edited by pinpoint
05/16/2019 3:12 pm
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United States
22349 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2019  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting coin.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
15440 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2019  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a reference to a likely candidate:

"FRISIA (Bolsward?) Egbert (1066-90) Penny.
Reverse copied from the representation of SS Simon and Jude on Imperial coins of Goslar,
AR, 0.69g., 18mm. Dannenburg 1 527 (?)

(Quote from attached caption to the #133 coin, illustrated on page 67 of
Coins of medieval Europe, by Philip Grierson, pub. Seaby, 1991)

Valued Member
Netherlands
68 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2019  01:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pinpoint to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Thanks for your help so far
I know the Penningen from Egbert II from Frisia .
In my opinion no match. We see on the av.the Emperor and on the rev. Simon & Judas with nimbus . On my coin we see two figures sitting at a table.

Regards , Pinpoint

Bedrock of the Community
Australia
15440 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2019  02:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is no surprise to me to know that what I have suggested may be no match.
Just hoping to get this id search on the right track.
Valued Member
Netherlands
68 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2019  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pinpoint to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All new info is welcome

I already searched at : Liege ( Belgium ) Goslar & Speyer ( Germany ) Friesacher pfennigen ( Austria ) , Hungary , Bohemia , Krakow ( Poland ),

Regards , Pinpoint


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United States
11492 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2019  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
All new info is welcome


@pp, I'm a little busy this weekend, but will try to take a look and get back to you if I find anything. I do have a small request, can you please re-take and post the second photo of this coin? Right now, there is a huge section that is washed out from the light. Maybe this section was never struck up, but if there is any additional detail then I'd like to see it. Thx!
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Valued Member
Netherlands
68 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2019  02:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pinpoint to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Spence

You can' t see anything on this particular part of this coin . Maybe wear of.
This coin also minted out of the center. It is a very interesting coin .
Thanks for your help so far .

Regards from The Netherlands , Pinpoint

Edited by pinpoint
05/18/2019 03:00 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1966 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a well known Polish denar from the reign of Boleslaw IV, which shows two figures seated at a table, as shown on one side of your denar (Kopicki 56). The table is similar, but the figures are not: https://onebid.pl/en/auction/523/lo...lem-NGC-ms65

I don;t have a copy of Kopicki to see if there are variants of this denar that might match your coin, but it sounds like you may have already followed that line of inquiry. And it seems unlikely a Polish coin would have found its way to Wallonia.
Edited by tdziemia
05/19/2019 6:32 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1966 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2019  02:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Given the location, I wonder if it could be from some part of Lower Lotharingia that you haven't already searched? I am away from home, but can look in my copy of Ghyssens (Brabant) when I return. But I think your coin is before the period covered by that reference (1070 - ca. 1400 if I remember correctly).
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11492 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2019  8:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok sorry @pinpoint, but I give up on this one. I couldn't find a good match in Germany or Italy. I really don't have any good resources on the coins of the medieval Low Countries so that may be the problem.
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
United States
1966 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2019  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not in Ghyssens, which covers Brabant from the reign of Godefroi I (1090-). The other places I can think to look are the Kunker Catalog of the de Wit collection, or the various Elsen auctions that always have some medieval coins from this area (I think these catalogs are available electronically).
Edited by tdziemia
05/23/2019 11:16 pm
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United States
8032 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2019  10:17 am  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first thought was Byzantine and indeed it looks slightly cup-shaped in the photos.
I believe it is a trachy of Isaac II or similar, most likely Constantinople mint.

Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC
Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Valued Member
Netherlands
68 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2019  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pinpoint to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Hallo Paralyse,

Thanks for your help ! I already search in Wildwinds on Byzantine trachy's .
Indeed there is similarity but I can't find a match with 2 figures seated at a table .
I also searched at Trachy's of Isaac II but no match so far.
This is a hard nut to crack !

Kind regards , Pinpoint
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