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Coin Show And Thoughts About The Future Of This Hobby.

 
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Valued Member
United States
228 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2019  3:30 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JoggingLiberty to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Please take a moment and think about our hobby and what things could make it better. In this video I talk about my thoughts.

BAk8DruMPPI
Pillar of the Community
United States
4076 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2019  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting thoughts and concepts for sure! Let me digest it.
Proud member of the Black Sheep Squadron!

In Memory Of Those Members Who Left Us Too Soon.....
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18069 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2019  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coin shows are different everywhere. You really can't judge a coin show based on one in Florida compared to one in Tennessee. Many dealers are different, many coins are different, customers are different, etc. You could find coins you need or want at one show and none at another one. A coin at one could cost you hardly nothing and at another show lots of money. I go to about 2 to 3 coin shows a Month. Some have about 80 to 100 dealers and this same show a Month later has about 30 dealers. It is a hobby and everything about it is constantly changing.
just carl
Valued Member
United States
219 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2019  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikem007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For me here in the Northeast US (NJ and PA), the shows I've been going to in early Spring were packed; however, now that summertime weather is here, less tables and less people. I'm told by some of the dealers that things pick back up in the fall.
Valued Member
United States
228 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2019  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JoggingLiberty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey everyone! Thanks for the replies! I'm not judging my opinion on coin shows by this one show or by shows in FL only. I've been to around two dozen shows around the US with a majority being in my home of FL. These small shows and large show vendors seem to have the same opinion on the hobby in a downward spiral. Those thoughts are generally shared and I hope something changes.

Thanks so much for taking the time to check it out! I would have really liked some suggestions on the future from others if they had some ideas :)
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15405 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2019  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your thoughts, as to the games to try and attract younger people have been done for years. Various shows have done "numismatic treasure hunts" for at leas the past decade or two. Many clubs have coin collecting merit badge clinics for the scouts. You comment about how it is all older people attending and you worry about the future of the hobby. The show you attended could have been at any time or place in the past one hundred years and you would have seen the same thing

For the most part coin collecting has never been a hobby with a lot of young people involved in it. A lot get exposed in their early years, but almost ALL of them leave in their early teens. They discover girls, cars, college, career and raising a family. Then, once the kids are mostly grown, a certain percentage of them will come back to the hobby, usually in their 40's or 50's. And then those stay active for the next 30 years. But that means that ANY show you go to is going to be mostly populated with people in their 40's to 80's with an average of around 60. When I joined my first coin club it had about 100 members and the average age was 56 years old. That was in 1975. Almost everyone who was a member of that club when I joined is dead now. The club still has a membership of about 100, and the average age is still about 56.

There is nothing wrong with exposing young people tot he hobby, that is a good thing, because it takes exposure. But you can't MAKE a coin collector. You can expose a young person, but if they don't have that "inner spark" that takes a real interest, they will leave the hobby and never return. But if they do, even though it may go dormant for 20 years or more, there is a good chance they will return. But the youngster that is exposed and grabs on and never leaves the hobby is a rare person.

Another problem with trying to get and hold young people is simply money. Getting into coin collecting any more seriously than just searching your pocket change takes money, sometimes serious money. even if you are just roll searching that takes the capital for buying the rolls in the first place, and any coin you keep cuts into that capital. And if their parents are living paycheck to paycheck as most are, they aren't going to be getting money from them to buy coins. Usually they have to wait until they get their first real jobs. But by then the "girls, cars, career and family" distractions have set in.

Face it, unless the youngsters have well off families they are most likely NOT going to stick around in their teens, 20's, and 30's. So you will never see a lot of young people at a coin show.

But there ARE a lot of young people being constantly exposed or involved. There are a lot on these forums, there are a lot on social media. And these are the people who will one day inherit the hobby and will be the ones that want our coins. Will the number be larger or smaller than today? Who knows. But I think they WILL be there.
Gary Schmidt
Valued Member
United States
225 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2019  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CitationSquirrel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Well put.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12017 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2019  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
These small shows and large show vendors seem to have the same opinion on the hobby in a downward spiral.


Just remember they're basing that off of their sales and there are a million reasons why many of these smaller sellers etc can be struggling that have nothing to do with the health of the hobby.
Valued Member
United States
397 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2019  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joecoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
These small shows and large show vendors seem to have the same opinion on the hobby in a downward spiral.


Just remember they're basing that off of their sales and there are a million reasons why many of these smaller sellers etc can be struggling that have nothing to do with the health of the hobby.


True, but if all of them (or 90%) are saying the same thing, I'm going to tend to believe there is a trend.
The trend may be affecting only coin shows, perhaps because of the internet.

It would be interesting to know how many coins are sold on eBay and web auctions today vs 1, 5, 10 and 20 years ago. Not dollar amounts but actual numbers of coins. Also would be nice to know how many coins are offered that don't sell.

The US Mint had generated a lot of interest with the 50 State Quarter series and subsequent commem type issues, but it appears that the bloom is off that rose.

Similarly, the Canadian Royal Mint seems to have killed their golden goose with the tsunami of NCLT they have released.
Pillar of the Community
United States
646 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2019  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The US Mint had generated a lot of interest with the 50 State Quarter series and subsequent commem type issues, but it appears that the bloom is off that rose.

Similarly, the Canadian Royal Mint seems to have killed their golden goose with the tsunami of NCLT they have released.


This.

Coin show interest and attendance are dwindling. I've seen it for years. There are many reasons, but here are a few:
Internet sales are replacing brick-and-mortar local dealers. Coin shops are crime magnets, and many of us are unwilling to take the risk to have brick-and-mortar shops. The lack of effective security in many smaller shows has the same dynamic.
There isn't anything in circulation to collect any more. Our circulating coinage is boring and dated. We need a complete coinage redesign, and now.
There is very little for beginning collectors at many shows. (Many, not most.) What younger collectors see is plastic-imprisoned coins for more money than they can imagine. Too many dealers are unwilling to take the time to visit with younger collectors.
The Mint, internet,and TV dealers hype too many junk coins as the next big thing. It doesn't take very many times for a collector to be burned by the hype before walking away from collecting.
Too many dealers push the idea of buying the best coin that can be afforded. Being only slightly facetious, that leads to one-coin collections, rather than completion of collections.
The growing abundance of counterfeit coins is killing the hobby. Beginning collectors are particularly vulnerable. The lack of effective federal laws and law enforcement are not helping. Note that I said effective. We have laws. They are useless. Pass a law making eBay financially responsible for its counterfeit coin sales, and see what happens.

Reacting to some of the points in the video, digital grading is the coin equivalent of digital ball-and-strike calls in baseball and endless "further review" officiating delays in football, baseball, and soccer. The cure is worse than the disease. First, digital grading is still subjective, because the programmer decides which scratches and wear and in which locations affect grades. Second, most credible TPGs have multiple graders. An app would have but one digital grader. Third, digital media fail to teach people how to evaluate coins. An informed collector quickly assesses technical grade, strike quality, eye appeal, and other intangibles. The key is education, rather than digitization.

Growing another generation in the hobby requires effort. Many local clubs and specialty clubs are doing just that. I would urge consideration of school partnerships to create in-school clubs, with panels of speakers and beginner-oriented coin shows. I would urge more intentional and intelligent use of social media. I would urge free introductory membership in national clubs for YNs.

Just some thoughts from a long-ago YN who couldn't quite give up on the hobby.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18069 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2019  08:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many well said and truth full statements here.
just carl
Valued Member
United States
228 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2019  08:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JoggingLiberty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great points fortcollins.

Just remember everyone, technology will find a place in this hobby. The technology will only get deeper and deeper. I may not have the right answers or know the future, but I'm sure that in 30 years, this hobby will have tools you never thought possible.... just like everything else in our lives.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1973 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2019  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There have been other threads on this topic.

Attendance at coin shows is not necessarily in decline because there is less interest in the hobby (though this may also be a factor). One obvious reason is because fewer and fewer people shop like this in 2019, whether it's coins, cars, appliances, etc. Basebal21 and others have posted on the many factors which might be contributing.

I also think it's a bit shortsighted to feel that coin show attendance is a good gauge of health of the the hobby. For me personally, the hobby has never been better, because there are more sources of information available online, and more channels through which I can buy than ever before: eBay, online auctions all over the world, etc. (of course, these are exactly the things that make the BUSINESS less profitable for dealers, who would probably prefer the good old days of less competition and higher selling prices).
When I began collecting, there was pocket change, two local coin stores, and mail order houses where I never saw what I was buying until it arrived in the mail. It's much better for buyers today.

Grading is not much of an issue for me. I avoid slabbed coins to the extent possible (I think I own 5), buy what appeals to me in relation to its price, after doing my due diligence (which is possible because of the internet).

Maybe most collectors are different.
Edited by tdziemia
06/12/2019 09:38 am
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
15445 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2019  09:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
About the future of the hobby:
There will be a few 'rusted on' coin collectors around, irrespective of, if coin collecting is an investment driven hobby or not.
In the early 20th Century, students at university received degrees with majors in ancient numismatics, and became F.S.A's (Fellow of the Society of Antiquarians).
If it wasn't for the research efforts of such people, numismatics would not have the permanent respect that it enjoys in the fields of fine arts, history and archeology.

With modern coins, precious metals are no longer used for circulation coinage.

The fill this gap, modern precious metal proof coins and bullion coins find a ready market.
In terms of the decades of my experience, I have found that numismatic values generally, are counter cyclical to the stock market, and the real estate market.
One of the reasons for this, is that numismatic coins and precious metal coins partly have some function as a hedge against inflation and downturns in other markets, and very roughly follow the gold and silver bullion markets.

Coin shows, numismatic public auctions, coin dealers, bullion dealers and eBay form the basis of the numismatic market place.
Edited by sel_69l
06/12/2019 10:08 am
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15405 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2019  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Pass a law making eBay financially responsible for its counterfeit coin sales, and see what happens.

Under the revised HPA ebay IS responsible and can be charged and fined. But there is no enforcement.
Gary Schmidt
Pillar of the Community
United States
3668 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2019  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joe2007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think that many coin show promoters do a very good job in advertising their shows to the general public and thus they don't get many casual and beginning collectors. Only the diehard collectors and dealers seem to show up.
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