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Do Canadian Trends Or Charlton Prices Mean Anything?

 
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Valued Member
United States
135 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2019  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What a waste of my time yesterday. I did some research this morning and found 43 certified coins that were run on this auction site last month and again yesterday. Surprise, surprise, they had identical or very close (shill) bids.

No doubt just about everything that went to the "floor" bidder was bought back by the owner yesterday. I only checked on coins where I could read the certification number but if one were to compare pictures from the June and July auctions, you would find many more instances.

Here are some results that I copied into a spreadsheet:
Date Denomination TPG Grade price


1859 $0.01 ICCS 6 $112.00 DP N9
1859/8 $0.01 ICCS 15 $65.00 W9
1890-H $0.01 ICCS 40 $48.00
1891 $0.01 ICCS 30 $30.00 LDLL O3
1891 $0.01 ICCS 8 $94.00 SDLL
1891 $0.01 ICCS 12 $100.00 SDLL
1891 $0.01 ICCS 15 $112.00 SDSL o3
1891 $0.01 ICCS 12 $94.00 SDSL o2
1891 $0.01 ICCS 12 $118.00 SDSL o3
1891 $0.01 ICCS 12 $88.00 SDSL o2
1891 $0.01 ICCS 10 $112.00 SDSL o2
1895 $0.01 ICCS 60B $95.00
1897 $0.01 ICCS 55 $53.00
1898-H $0.01 ICCS 40 $35.00
1898-H $0.01 ICCS 60B $124.00
1900-H $0.01 ICCS 63RB $106.00
1901 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $65.00
1901 $0.01 ICCS 62RB $94.00
1901 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $118.00
1901 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $106.00
1901 $0.01 ICCS 63R $118.00
1902 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $71.00
1902 $0.01 PCGS 63RB $77.00
1902 $0.01 ICCS 63R $77.00
1903 $0.01 ICCS 62RB $47.00
1907-H $0.01 ICCS 10 $18.00
1907-H $0.01 ICCS 40 $53.00
1908 $0.01 ICCS 55 $35.00
1911 $0.01 ICCS 63R $76.00
1911 $0.01 ICCS 64R $124.00
1911 $0.01 PCGS 64RB $124.00
1912 $0.01 ICCS 64R $136.00
1912 $0.01 ICCS 64 $100.00
1913 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $106.00
1913 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $53.00
1914 $0.01 ICCS 60B $53.00
1914 $0.01 ICCS 62RB $24.00
1914 $0.01 ICCS 62R $88.00
1914 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $106.00
1915 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $106.00
1915 $0.01 ICCS 60B $41.00
1915 $0.01 ICCS 63R $83.00
1915 $0.01 ICCS 63R $94.00
1916 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $83.00
1916 $0.01 ICCS 63R $88.00
1916 $0.01 ICCS 63R $77.00
1916 $0.01 ICCS 64R $112.00
1916 $0.01 ICCS 64RB $83.00
1916 $0.01 ICCS 64RB $112.00
1917 $0.01 ICCS 64RB $100.00
1917 $0.01 ICCS 63R $12.00
1917 $0.01 ICCS 64R $88.00
1917 $0.01 ICCS 64R $112.00
1918 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $59.00
1918 $0.01 ICCS 64RB $94.00
1918 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $59.00
1918 $0.01 ICCS 63R $65.00
1918 $0.01 ICCS 63R $65.00
1918 $0.01 PCGS 64RB $118.00
1919 $0.01 ICCS 62RB $24.00
1919 $0.01 ICCS 63R $65.00
1919 $0.01 ICCS 64RB $112.00
1919 $0.01 ICCS 64R $118.00
1920 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $88.00 large
1920 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $53.00 small
1920 $0.01 PCGS 63RB $53.00 small
1926 $0.01 ICCS 55 $65.00
1928 $0.01 ICCS 50 $35.00
1928 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $106.00
1928 $0.01 ICCS 63R $106.00
1932 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $71.00
1932 $0.01 PCGS 63RB $88.00
1932 $0.01 PCGS 63RB $71.00
1933 $0.01 ICCS 62RB $6.00
1933 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $59.00
1933 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $53.00
1933 $0.01 ICCS 64R $124.00
1934 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $71.00
1935 $0.01 ICCS 63B $59.00
1936 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $47.00
1937 $0.01 ICCS 64R $24.00
1938 $0.01 ICCS 65R $59.00
1938 $0.01 ICCS 65R $77.00
1940 $0.01 ICCS 64R $18.00
1941 $0.01 ICCS 58 $6.00
1942 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $47.00
1942 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $47.00
1942 $0.01 ICCS 63R $47.00
1942 $0.01 ICCS 64R $83.00
1943 $0.01 ICCS 64R $94.00
1943 $0.01 ICCS 64R $41.00
1944 $0.01 ICCS 63RB $59.00
1944 $0.01 ICCS 63R $71.00
1945 $0.01 ICCS 63R $18.00
1945 $0.01 ICCS 64R $42.00
1945 $0.01 ICCS 64R $24.00
1946 $0.01 ICCS 64R $24.00
1947 $0.01 ICCS 64R $24.00
1949 $0.01 ICCS 65R $41.00
1950 $0.01 ICCS 64R $18.00
1950 $0.01 ICCS 65R $53.00
1950 $0.01 ICCS 65R $65.00
1951 $0.01 ICCS 64R $35.00
1952 $0.01 ICCS 64R $18.00
1954 $0.01 ICCS 65R $24.00 SF
1955 $0.01 ICCS 65R $30.00 SF
1959 $0.01 ICCS 65R $18.00
1870 $0.05 ICCS 40 $130.00
1880-H $0.05 ICCS 15 $30.00 o3
1880-H $0.05 ICCS 30 $82.00 o3
1885 $0.05 na 15 $47.00 sm.5
1885 $0.05 na 30 $130.00 sm.5
1887 $0.05 na 20 $100.00
1888 $0.05 na 30 $47.00
1888 $0.05 na 40 $71.00
1888 $0.05 na 40 $59.00
1888 $0.05 na 40 $71.00
1889 $0.05 na 10 $53.00
1889 $0.05 na 12 $59.00
1889 $0.05 na 15 $100.00
1889 $0.05 na 20 $130.00
1890-H $0.05 ICCS 20 $41.00
1890-H $0.05 ICCS 20 $41.00
1890-H $0.05 ICCS 30 $77.00
1890-H $0.05 ICCS 35 $77.00
1890-H $0.05 ICCS 40 $94.00
1890-H $0.05 ICCS 45 $130.00
1890-H $0.05 ICCS 12 $18.00
1891 $0.05 na 45 $83.00
1891 $0.05 ICCS 50 $112.00
1892 $0.05 ICCS 40 $112.00
1892 $0.05 ICCS 15 $30.00
1893 $0.05 na 45 $77.00
1893 $0.05 na 45 $77.00
1893 $0.05 na 50 $112.00
1894 $0.05 ICCS 15 $77.00
1894 $0.05 na 20 $100.00
1894 $0.05 ICCS 20 $94.00
1896 $0.05 na 45 $83.00
1896 $0.05 na 50 $94.00
1897 $0.05 na 45 $77.00
1898 $0.05 na 20 $59.00
1898 $0.05 na 30 $100.00
1899 $0.05 ICCS 30 $30.00
1899 $0.05 na 45 $59.00
1899 $0.05 na 50 $82.00
1899 $0.05 ICCS 50 $100.00
1899 $0.05 ICCS 53 $118.00
1899 $0.05 PCGS 45 $59.00 Obv.2
1900 $0.05 ICCS 20 $18.00 oval 00s
1900 $0.05 ICCS 30 $30.00 oval 00s
1900 $0.05 na 12 $59.00 rd Oos
1900 $0.05 na 15 $77.00 rd Oos
1900 $0.05 na 20 $94.00 rd Oos
1901 $0.05 na 45 $59.00
1901 $0.05 na 50 $83.00
1901 $0.05 PCGS 53 $118.00
1902 $0.05 na 60 $47.00
1902 $0.05 na 63 $71.00
1902 $0.05 PCGS 64 $112.00
1902 $0.05 ICCS 64 $112.00
1902 $0.05 na 62 $53.00
1902 $0.05 ICCS 62 $71.00
1902 $0.05 na 64 $83.00
1902 $0.05 na 64 $106.00
1902 $0.05 ICCS 63 $71.00
1902-H $0.05 na 63 $65.00 lg.H
1902-H $0.05 na 58 $47.00 lg.H
1900-H $0.05 na 30 $41.00 sm.H
1900-H $0.05 na 50 $94.00 sm.H
1902-H $0.05 na 50 $94.00 sm.H
1902-H $0.05 na 63 $83.00 sm.H
1902-H $0.05 ICCS 55 $130.00 sm.H
1903 $0.05 na 40 $53.00
1903 $0.05 na 45 $94.00
1903 $0.05 na 45 $94.00
1903 $0.05 na 50 $130.00
1903-H $0.05 na 50 $65.00 sm.H
1904 $0.05 ICCS 40 $35.00
1904 $0.05 na 45 $59.00
1904 $0.05 na 50 $94.00
1905 $0.05 na 55 $100.00 n.date
1905 $0.05 na 55 $77.00 n.date
1906 $0.05 PCGS 55 $88.00
1906 $0.05 PCGS 58 $112.00
1906 $0.05 na 60 $65.00 n.date
1906 $0.05 na 60 $94.00 w.date
1906 $0.05 na 60 $130.00 w.date
1907 $0.05 na 55 $53.00 n.date
1907 $0.05 na 62 $94.00 n.date
1907 $0.05 na 62 $130.00 n.date
1907-H $0.05 PCGS 62 $130.00
1908 $0.05 na 45 $71.00
1908 $0.05 ICCS 58 $136.00 sm.8
1908 $0.05 na 45 $71.00 sm.8
1908 $0.05 na 55 $118.00 sm.8
1908 $0.05 na 55 $124.00 sm.8
1908 $0.05 PCGS 55 $124.00 sm.8
1910 $0.05 na 55 $47.00 PL
1910 $0.05 na 60 $71.00 PL
1910 $0.05 na 62 $94.00 PL
1910 PL PCGS 62 $94.00 PL
1910 $0.05 na 20 $47.00 RL
1910 $0.05 na 30 $88.00 RL
1912 $0.05 na 55 $53.00
1912 $0.05 na 60 $77.00
1912 $0.05 na 62 $118.00
1914 $0.05 na 55 $47.00
1914 $0.05 na 60 $77.00
1914 $0.05 na 62 $106.00
1914 $0.05 ICCS 62 $106.00
1914 $0.05 PCGS 62 $100.00
1915 $0.05 na 30 $53.00
1915 $0.05 na 45 $88.00
1915 $0.05 na 45 $100.00
1915 $0.05 na 45 $130.00
1916 $0.05 na 45 $47.00
1916 $0.05 na 50 $71.00
1916 $0.05 na 55 $88.00
1916 $0.05 na 55 $106.00
1917 $0.05 ICCS 63 $118.00
1920 $0.05 ICCS 63 $77.00
1920 $0.05 ICCS 63 $83.00
1922 $0.05 ICCS 62 $94.00
1922 $0.05 PCGS 62 $112.00 far rim
1922 $0.05 ICCS 55 $41.00
1922 $0.05 ICCS 55 $47.00
1922 $0.05 ICCS 55 $53.00
1922 $0.05 ICCS 62 $112.00
1922 $0.05 ICCS 62 $95.00
1923 $0.05 ICCS 55 $77.00
1923 $0.05 PCGS 55 $124.00
1924 $0.05 ICCS 55 $88.00
1924 $0.05 PCGS 55 $83.00
1924 $0.05 PCGS 58 $106.00
1924 $0.05 ICCS 60 $118.00
1924 $0.05 ICCS 58 $106.00
1924 $0.05 PCGS 58 $106.00
1927 $0.05 ICCS 58 $77.00
1927 $0.05 ICCS 55 $59.00
1927 $0.05 ICCS 62 $124.00
1927 $0.05 PCGS 62 $130.00
1928 $0.05 ICCS 50 $41.00
1928 $0.05 ICCS 55 $53.00
1928 $0.05 PCGS 55 $53.00
1928 $0.05 PCGS 58 $65.00
1928 $0.05 PCGS 58 $65.00
1928 $0.05 ICCS 62 $106.00
1928 $0.05 ICCS 62 $106.00
1928 $0.05 PCGS 62 $106.00
1928 $0.05 PCGS 62 $106.00
1929 $0.05 PCGS 53 $47.00
1929 $0.05 ICCS 58 $83.00
1930 $0.05 ICCS 55 $88.00
1930 $0.05 PCGS 55 $83.00
1930 $0.05 PCGS 58 $94.00
1935 $0.05 ICCS 45 $41.00
1938 $0.05 ICCS 62 $136.00
1940 $0.05 ICCS 63 $71.00
1940 $0.05 ICCS 63 $71.00
1940 $0.05 ICCS 64 $124.00
1942 $0.05 ICCS 63 $53.00
1942T $0.05 ICCS 64 $35.00
1943 $0.05 ICCS 64 $29.00
1944 $0.05 ICCS 64 $41.00
1944 $0.05 ICCS 65 $41.00
1944 $0.05 ICCS 65 $41.00
1945 $0.05 ICCS 65 $83.00
1945 $0.05 ICCS 65 $83.00
1948 $0.05 ICCS 64 $71.00
1951 $0.05 ICCS 64 $24.00
1952 $0.05 ICCS 64 $17.00
1952 $0.05 ICCS 65 $94.00
1953 $0.05 ICCS 65 $65.00 SF
1953 $0.05 ICCS 65 $35.00 NSF FL
1954 $0.05 ICCS 63 $11.00
1954 $0.05 ICCS 65 $77.00
1956 $0.05 ICCS 65PL $18.00
1957 $0.05 ICCS 65 $35.00
1958 $0.05 ICCS 65 $41.00
1959 $0.05 ICCS 65 $47.00
1960 $0.05 ICCS 65 $35.00
1960 $0.05 ICCS 65 $47.00
1962 $0.05 ICCS 65 $53.00
1962 $0.05 ICCS 65 $65.00
1964 $0.05 ICCS 62 $65.00 ex.water line
1964 $0.05 ICCS 62 $65.00 ex.water line
1858 $0.10 ICCS 15 $100.00
1871 $0.10 ICCS 12 $83.00
1880-H $0.10 ICCS 15 $100.00
1894 $0.10 na 8 $47.00
1896 $0.10 na 12 $35.00
1896 $0.10 na 15 $53.00
1898 $0.10 NGC 35 $130.00
1905 $0.10 ICCS 20 $88.00
1907-H $0.10 na 15 $24.00
1919 $0.10 ICCS 62 $95.00
1929 $0.10 ICCS 60 $88.00
1930 $0.10 ICCS 55 $71.00
1930 $0.10 PCGS 55 $53.00
1937 $0.10 ICCS 64 $47.00
1937 $0.10 ICCS 64 $47.00
1938 $0.10 ICCS 55 $47.00
1939 $0.10 ICCS 63 $83.00
1939 $0.10 ICCS 63 $88.00
1940 $0.10 ICCS 63 $41.00
1940 $0.10 ICCS 63 $88.00
1940 $0.10 ICCS 64 $53.00
1940 $0.10 ICCS 64 $77.00
1941 $0.10 ICCS 62 $65.00
1942 $0.10 ICCS 63 $65.00
1942 $0.10 ICCS 63 $118.00
1943 $0.10 ICCS 63 $35.00
1943 $0.10 ICCS 64 $77.00
1944 $0.10 ICCS 60 $29.00
1944 $0.10 ICCS 64 $94.00
1944 $0.10 ICCS 64 $130.00
1946 $0.10 ICCS 63 $41.00
1946 $0.10 ICCS 63 $41.00
1948 $0.10 ICCS 63 $94.00
1952 $0.10 ICCS 65 $94.00
1952 $0.10 ICCS 65 $95.00
1953 $0.10 ICCS 65 $29.00 NSF
1953 $0.10 ICCS 65 $29.00 NSF
1954 $0.10 ICCS 62 $12.00
1955 $0.10 ICCS 65 $29.00
1955 $0.10 ICCS 65 $71.00
1956 $0.10 ICCS 65 $47.00
1956 $0.10 ICCS 65PL $24.00
1958 $0.10 ICCS 65 $35.00
1960 $0.10 ICCS 65 $23.00
1961 $0.10 ICCS 65 $24.00
1962 $0.10 ICCS 65 $30.00
1963 $0.10 ICCS 65 $18.00
1964 $0.10 ICCS 64 $35.00
1964 $0.10 ICCS 65 $35.00
1872-H $0.25 ICCS 40 $147.00
1912 $0.25 ICCS 30 $65.00
1943 $0.25 ICCS 64 $124.00
1947 $0.25 ICCS 64 $65.00
1949 $0.25 ICCS 64 $65.00
1953 $0.25 ICCS 64 $24.00 lg. date
1953 $0.25 ICCS 65 $77.00 lg. date
1954 $0.25 ICCS PL65 $71.00
1911 $0.50 ICCS 12 $136.00
1919 $0.50 ICCS 20 $53.00
1929 $0.50 ICCS 20 $71.00
1937 $0.50 ICCS 63 $89.00
1938 $0.50 ICCS 55 $124.00
1944 $0.50 ICCS 63 $89.00
1952 $0.50 ICCS 64 $53.00
1953 $0.50 ICCS 64 $30.00
1954 $0.50 ICCS 64 $77.00
1955 $0.50 ICCS 64 $47.00
1957 $0.50 ICCS 64 $35.00
1958 $0.50 ICCS 64 $18.00
1959 $0.50 ICCS 65PL $30.00
1960 $0.50 ICCS 64 $30.00
1961 $0.50 ICCS 64PL $14.00
1964 $0.50 ICCS 65 $71.00
1963 $1.00 na 65 $407.00
1912 $5.00 PCGS 65 $2,932.00
1913 $5.00 PCGS 64 $1,516.00
1914 $5.00 PCGS 62 $1,056.00
1914 $5.00 PCGS 63 $2,342.00
1914 $10.00 PCGS 64 $5,870.00

Newfy
1872 $2.00 PCGS 55 $2,248.00
1872 $2.00 PCGS 55 $2,243.00
1872 $2.00 PCGS 55 $2,254.00
1881 $2.00 PCGS 58 $1,505.00
1881 $2.00 ICCS 62 $4,325.00

Valued Member
Canada
84 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2019  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lakeman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would be interested to know who the sellers are that are doing this, if that's the actual case.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
968 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2019  6:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add purelywasted to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is an interesting auction. I was bidding in the June auction and the first 2/3 of the lots were going for unreal prices, way above normal, I actually stopped following it for a few hours. I came back later in the afternoon and all of sudden things started to go for rock bottom. I picked up 30 lots, most at below normal auction prices + some dumb impulse buys.

A few examples including BP & Shipping, values in brackets are coinsandcanada recent auction price

1946 10 cent ICCS - MS64 - $38 ($50)
1941 25 cent ICCS - MS63 - $13 ($35)
1940 50 cent ICSS - MS63 - $50 - designated cameo ($82+ cameo premium)
1943 50 cent ICCS - AU55 - $13 - Far 3 ($28)
1946 $1.00 ICCS - AU55 - $58 ($100)
1950 $1.00 ICCS - MS60 - $38 - Arnprior ($60)

Overall really surprised, so not sure what to think of this auction house yet, but happy with my first purchases. Only sour note was a 1959 1 cent PCGS MS66 - Red that did not show up in the package, money promptly refunded.
Valued Member
Canada
385 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2019  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tamarin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What's needed is a shakeup at Trends. Common date material in EF or lower is comatose for value and the Trends should reflect that. Even better coins routinely sell at 50% or less of trends. If Trends is to be credible it must reflect true market activity,not speculation and hope. If the market doesn't pick up there will be a lot of unhappy, inventory heavy dealers and a lot of depressed collectors.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2631 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  06:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have heard speculation that trends is kept high so that dealers can gain some benefit by selling at 70% or less of trends. I too would like to know the truth.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2206 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  09:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have heard speculation that trends is kept high so that dealers can gain some benefit by selling at 70% or less of trends. I too would like to know the truth.


The 'truth' is very easy to find and staring right at you.

Just go to 'completed items' on Ebay and see what ICCS graded coins are selling for.

One other source of 'truth' is finding out what dealers will pay for ICCS coins. It used to be 60% of trends, sight unseen, for one or a hundred coins.

Now, most dealers say 'no' to any purchase opportunity, and the ones that do buy, will only pay around 35% of trends.

So if the dealers are reducing their 'buy' percentage by 25% (60%-35%), then it makes sense for a fairly active market to transpire, their selling price should be reduced by the same amount.......old 80% selling price - 25% = 55% trends selling price.

Good luck going to a coin show and finding a dealer selling at 55% of trends for ALL of the dealer's inventory of ICCS graded coins.
Edited by doubleeagle59
07/17/2019 09:39 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2206 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  09:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What a waste of my time yesterday. I did some research this morning and found 43 certified coins that were run on this auction site last month and again yesterday. Surprise, surprise, they had identical or very close (shill) bids.


I've purchased coins on a very regular basis from Ebay and coin shows since 1998 and the above quote is the reason why in all those years I have never attended a coin auction.

With an auction, you are NOT in control and who knows what kind of shenanigans are taking place there.

I've always said there is no such thing as a 'true' coin auction.
Edited by doubleeagle59
07/17/2019 09:44 am
Valued Member
Canada
129 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  2:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sergiomomesso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
in the Osborne-Towers serie of 1937 Banknotes tend to go around 65-75% of the trend in auction and on ebay the price are close to 90% if not OVER .... I guess it is always a question of demand and offer

Valued Member
United States
135 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have no problem with an auction that has a reserve or high starting price. I can skip it if the amount is too much. But don't make me waste my time with a low starting price, bidding against imaginary bidders.
Valued Member
Canada
385 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  07:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tamarin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you try to sell common date Trends listed coins, EF or lower, to dealers at a coin show none will bite. Their inventories are full. So how does Trends decide their values? These coins are not marketable. Trends now is simply a table that collectors use to decide what they want to pay - 40 to 50%, and higher only for difficult and desirable issues. Dealers use Trends as a table to establish their in-points and that's usually 20 to 25% and only on coins they know they can (likely) sell. They'll go higher on the toughies but this is a small, select group. Why buy coins of a date and series you already have too many of? It seems to be a game. Despite the well phrased and smart intro given for Trends the market for most coins is far lower than Trends quotes.
Valued Member
Canada
145 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2019  11:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Universalcoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A little late to the discussion, but here's my take.

Quote:
In my experience, you can USUALLY get coins for about 70% of Trends, as a rule, at most larger coin shows ... ask for it. "Trends" has always been written and updated by dealers, so guess where the lean on prices is.

This is pretty exactly my experience selling graded coins that are not common date. Raw, you're looking at closer to 60%. Nevermind markets like NFLD coins. I think these prices are the most grossly overpriced values in the trends. I haven't been able to sell a NFLD piece (graded or otherwise), short of a $2 gold, for more than 55% of the trend value in years. People keep telling me the NFLD market is soft and they're underrated in the market. The reality is they're overvalued because there's very little interest and a great buying opportunity for those that want. The same largely applies to high grade, common date coins. People aren't looking to fill those holes now, so the prices on them are close to bargain basement.

This is exceedingly frustrating for me, as a dealer. When people come to me with their collections, I have to break it to them that I'm only going to offer roughly 30% of the trend prices on most items. Historically I've paid out closer to 40-45%, but these trend prices are so artificially inflated. It may look nice on the price tag when we discount so heavily, but it makes acquisitions downright depressing.

As was already stated -- the trends are written by dealers and they've got nothing but skin in this game.
Valued Member
United States
135 Posts
 Posted 07/21/2019  08:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
As was already stated -- the trends are written by dealers and they've got nothing but skin in this game.


I would hope somebody would create a coin list that reflects actual sale prices - not somebody's opinion.

I have authored two price guide books for antique fishing tackle. There were already several tackle guide books but the prices therein were very vague and just one person's opinion. My books listed many details for each item, the date sold, condition, and the price. I used completed eBay auctions and actual private sales (many of them mine). Just like coins, details on a lure can make a HUGE difference in price.

I know some auction prices can be fake due to shill bidding. But it gets a mite pricey to buy back your own stuff from respected auction houses. And to me, "Buy it Now" prices are meaningless to use as a guide.


Quote:
I haven't been able to sell a NFLD piece (graded or otherwise), short of a $2 gold, for more than 55% of the trend value in years.


Do those worn Newfy coins on eBay with "Buy it Now" or high starting bid prices ever trade hands?
Edited by John K
07/21/2019 08:49 am
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 Posted 07/21/2019  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
John K: Although certainly not fully accurate or up-to-date, this site gives Ebay "sold" prices, as well as some auctions:
http://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins...&Send=Search
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 Posted 07/21/2019  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did some research on that site a few weeks ago. I didn't think is was reflecting current reality.
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 Posted 07/21/2019  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Check Pokermandude's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another thing to keep in mind is that coins of the same grade are rarely equal in value/price. Nice examples will bring more, mediocre and overgraded pieces will bring a small fraction of trends. Many of the pieces that come up for auction (especially on Ebay) are in the not-so-high quality categories.
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