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A Rarity Within A Rarity - The Upright '1' On Early Florins.

 
 
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Valued Member
Australia
268 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  07:27 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Among other coins I collect Australian predecimal shillings and florins dated from 1912 to 1915, because of their scarcity primarily but also because there are interesting varieties of the strikes for these years.

Most I have found but one escapes me and has for a long time.

The Australian 1915 London florin is the date I'm writing about here.
A fairly common variety is an upright '9' - there are a few of these on eBay now in bad condition.

Far more rare are florins from 1912 and 1915 which have the second 1 of the date upright and is aligned directly over a rim bead. Here is an example:


(credit triton)

That is the only image I have ever seen for this variety of the 1915 London florin, and I have never seen an actual coin of this variety.

The upright 2nd 1 is seen on the Heaton mint 1915h, and many other florins of the era, but this is extremely rare.

A typical well preserved 1915 London florin looks like this:



The second 1 is not upright and is aligned over the gap between two rim beads.

I have looked at several hundred photos of 1915L florins and found -none-.

I'm curious if any collectors of Australian florins have seen this variety or know more about it.

(or have one for sale)

Thanks for reading and cheers.
New Member
Australia
39 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add autocoupler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Found this sorry old thing, but it looks like what you are yalking about. I also had a look at the book on Australian florins by Dr David L. Briggs where he identifies 13 different reverses, three of which display the second 1 aligning with dentical 10. Each is set apart by other date numerals having different alignments. He refers to the three dies as type J, K and M.

img]uploaded/autocoupler/20190714_1915-Florin-wide-date.JPG[/img]
New Member
Australia
39 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add autocoupler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oops,

New Member
Australia
39 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add autocoupler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that I've taken the time to have a proper look the coin I posted is not it either. The second 1 in your photo appears to aligns at dentical 9, and numeral 9 is closer to the first 1. Don't see the coin you posted in the Briggs book at all.
Valued Member
Australia
268 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  10:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the coin I posted is not it either


No it's not but I appreciate your info.

I don't own Dr. Brigg's book, but as soon as I figure out where to buy his books - I'll buy them.

Do you mean this one?


I have a few high grade 15L's and a bunch of dogs, and that's typical for the date - unc or junk usually.

This apparently ultra-rare variety has me a bit intrigued.

Cheers
Edited by CoinOS
07/14/2019 10:40 am
New Member
Australia
39 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add autocoupler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi CoinOS, The book I have is his 2nd edition as below. Also, what do you think about the alignment of this 1912? Cheers.



Valued Member
Australia
268 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2019  07:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have is his 2nd edition as below


Why can't I find that book? I gotta buy that.


Quote:
what do you think about the alignment of this 1912


My vision & drawing skills are both bad, but it does seem a vertical 2nd '1'.
That's a nice coin btw.

On looking at some others - basically I have no idea what's going on.

The 2nd image belongs to a well known aussie coin dealer and is MS61, which is to me a harsh grade for such a nice coin - soft strike or not - that should be MS62+

The 3rd image has me totally confused and is different again.

The 1915 variety jumped out at me and is obvious, however the 1912's are confusing me.

I'm hoping you, or one of the many here can shed light on this.





Edit:
I just realized that the 2 in the 3rd image has a narrowing downstroke, which some 1912 florins do not exhibit.
This immediately reminds me of the 1923 halfpenny for which that is a marker for genuine coins.
Edited by CoinOS
07/15/2019 07:07 am
New Member
Australia
39 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2019  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add autocoupler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CoinOS, I tried to email you with some contact details that may help in locating a copy of the second edition, but you are not receiving. I don't like to post personal contact details on a public forum.
Valued Member
Australia
268 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2019  10:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Email unlocked now, sorry about that.
New Member
Australia
39 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2019  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add autocoupler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tried again but the forum rules say my I don't yet qualify to contact members, something to do with insufficient posts. Anyhow, I have contacted the forum moderation team and explained the situation, so maybe they can work something out. Failing that, I may have to contact the electricity commission, they have lots of "posts". Lol!!
Valued Member
Australia
268 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2019  10:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi and thank you for trying.

I have seen some of his books at the National library which has pretty much everything, but I'd rather support an author than photocopy their stuff.

Unusual that they are hard to find, I'm quite certain that some other readers here own some of his books, but I appear to be too dimwitted to source them.

I am fond of the year 1915, as so many scarce and rare coins come from that year, I own a decent 1912 but MS grades are out of reach for most, very costly for some reason.
The one you posted is quite nice and depending on King George would probably get a 53 or 55 from the graders.

The upright '1' 1915 London florin is I suspect, extraordinarily rare. The 1915 florin is a coin I hunt but I have never seen that variety.

#
Edited by CoinOS
07/16/2019 11:44 pm
Pillar of the Community
Australia
697 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It isn't just the books but the accompanying CDS with thousands of images that you want
New Member
Australia
39 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add autocoupler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The contact email for Dr David Briggs is briggs1951@bigpond.com as per page 13 of The Australasian Coin and Banknote Magazine.
Valued Member
Australia
268 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  9:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for this information.
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