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The Standards By Which We Sell Coins

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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2008  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
xshift, I think you have put something into words that was on my mind: it's about taking responsibility for resolving the situation.
I also think that if you set a high level of ethics towards buyers, this encourages a response in kind. Good will begets more of the same.
Rest in Peace
pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
xshift, I'm hoping that you're right about this person not being able to respond to e-mails. On the other hand ... why would he remove the original posts here so that I no longer have access to his username here? Why would he suddenly move the item from here to ebay? Why would he, in his last e-mail to me, indicate that he'd received the MO that I sent and had mailed the coin? There's a growing pattern here that does not match his 100% positive rating on ebay, and I don't like it.

I didn't mean to hijack this thread, but I thought that some reportage of odd behavior might be useful in determining standards of behavior for both sellers and buyers. I don't bid on auctions which cause "flags" to go up in my mind, and believe me, there were no "flags" as such when I originally bid on the coin. Now, I see that I should have questioned his moving the coin from here to ebay, but I just assumed that he wanted to put it out before a larger venue. Why I was the only bidder on what looked to be a desirable coin, I dunno.
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halfabustisbetter's Avatar
United States
1984 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  10:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfabustisbetter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since you asked, I'll share my thoughts even though some may be contrary to the majority:

I won't argue with your premise that CCF is a great alternative venue. I will say that there have been a lot of listings that are basically "chaff"--sellers could improve their sales and listings could be measurably improved if sellers did some more research into what they owned and what comparable examples are selling for elsewhere. A bonus would be if sellers provided their research information in their listing, with links whenever possible.

The seller's own grade doesn't matter to me in the slightest, as the price they set is the true measure of their esteem for their coin. If I think something is worth the asking price, I will buy it. If I know I can get something nicer at the dealer's or on Teletrade or ebay for less, I will just ignore it rather than try to convince the seller that what they think is a VF for $120 dollars I (and the market) consider a Fine worth about $68. On the other hand, if I am selling something, I would love to hear comments about whether anyone thinks my price is out of line, and I don't get offended by constructive criticism. Since CCF is primarily a site where I come to learn and to discuss, I don't think the educational value of the site should be lost simply because commerce is involved. For that reason, I believe topics in the Buy/Sell/Trade section should be open for comments just like any other thread on the site, as long as comments are on-topic and designed to be constructive. I welcome comments on my listings anyway.

Regarding shipping: It's the responsibility of the seller to ship the coin for a reasonable cost to the buyer in an appropriately confirmable manner. Remember: problems can occur all along the way, sometimes by forces outside of the control of either buyer or seller. That said, I admit that I have been guilty recently of a significant delay in shipping an item, and I have apologized and given the buyer several extras to make up for my lapse. If they decide not to deal with me again, I have no one to blame but myself.

Regarding returns: If the buyer does not like the coin and wishes to return it, return shipping should be at the buyer's expense, and the buyer should not expect the original shipping cost to be refunded. If the buyer feels that the coin was misprepresented, then it is appropriate to politely request that the seller pay the return shipping cost and refund the cost of the coin including the original shipping charge. It is the seller's answer to the polite request that determines whether or not a buyer should deal with them again. A buyer should not expect a seller to bear the total cost of shipping--even when the buyer believes there was a misrepresentation. It starts to get a little bit petty if you demand a seller pays shipping both ways. Why? Because your claim for shipping costs is based on your opinion. Even if the vast majority of reasonable numismatists would agree with your very reasonable, correct, and valid opinion, it is still your opinion. I just think that getting into a spat over who pays the shipping is not a fruitful way to spend time that could be used in looking for nicer coins from better sellers. If a seller has a 'no questions asked' returns policy and clearly states that shipping is the responsibility of the buyer, I think you state your case for shipping costs once, and then let it go.

I have more thoughts, but I won't bore you any more with them--good topic.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I noticed a coin posted here for sale and contacted the member to express interest. He replied that he'd already listed the coin on ebay and that I could bid on it there if I wished.

If a forum member has a "for sale" listing in the B/S/T section here, it absolutely should not be concurrently listed on ebay.
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murty's Avatar
United States
1353 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  12:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add murty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Halfabustisbetter pretty much sums it up.If you are educated enough to know what you buy OR sell and there is a discrepancy in the transaction,don't be petty. Solve it and move on.
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  12:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's good to hear everyone's opinions--thanks for speaking up!

Quote:
I will say that there have been a lot of listings that are basically "chaff"--sellers could improve their sales and listings could be measurably improved if sellers did some more research into what they owned and what comparable examples are selling for elsewhere.
In essence, this is why I brought up this subject. Outside of many well-conducted transactions here, I've also noticed a few that strike me as cross-over of typical " ebay laziness": over-graded or problem coins, poor photos, inflated prices, and over-pitched descriptions (nobody in particular). Despite what some "over there" think, good business does not mean taking an item of dubious value and leveraging a profit from it. On the contrary, it means you first consider the needs and interests of your customer, and adapt your business/product/service to provide a real benefit. Otherwise you're kidding yourself: your service and/or product may be a sham. One of my pet peeves, I guess!

So I don't think it's too hard to rise above the "chaff" and provide a better venue for the collector. Making an effort in good faith has positive implications for everyone. I wouldn't write this if I did not first apply some standards to myself.
Edited by KurtS
09/11/2008 5:30 pm
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nohope587's Avatar
United States
5953 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nohope587 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sell a fair amount on the for sale section.
I do offer an open return policy. My biggest problem is determining a value for the items I sell. I welcome people posting to tell me my prices are way out of line. I normally only deal with one type of coin and my knowledge is lacking in most other areas of numismatics. Slabbed coins are easier as I can check prices from companies like teletrade and heritage for actual sale prices. Raw coins especially ones from series I am unfamiliar with are a different story. I try to include reasonable pictures and make a stab at grades and values. But in some cases I suspect I am way off. There are those who tell me I should learn about the coins I am selling but I have limited time to spend on my hobby and I prefer to allocate those meager resources to my primary focus. Most of the chaff I sell comes from bulk purchases I have made in order to get one coin. The for sale section requires a price to be listed and for the most part I agree its a good idea. I could auction my chaff but I have found that far more members frequent the for sale section.
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I might add--there's nothing wrong with "chaff" if everyone has the same knowledge about the coins.
I think TPGs have done a disservice to the hobby by rendering borderline coins "uncollectable". It's all about proper disclosure.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188952 Posts
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m9frank's Avatar
United States
628 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add m9frank to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
KurtS

I applaud your effort.

I have bought a few items here, every transaction was great. If I can do anything to help make buying/selling here even better, let me know. I'm all for it.

Mark
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halfabustisbetter's Avatar
United States
1984 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  11:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfabustisbetter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just a note: my reference to 'chaff' had nothing to do with the quality of coins contained in any particular listing--I was referring to listings themselves. Of course people are going to use a for sale section to sell coins they either don't want or aren't interested in; it's how they sell that matters.
Rest in Peace
pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2008  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can now state that my problem with not receiving a coin after winning it on an ebay auction seems to be resolved, but not until after I entered a "dispute" on ebay. The seller's mother sent me a very nice, apologetic e-mail explaining the problem - mostly that her son simply failed to mail the coin - and that it was on the way. I didn't realize that I was dealing with a kid ... perhaps bringing up another dimension to this discussion, that of having to educate those who don't understand the rules and "etiquette" of buying and selling coins.
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2008  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The seller's mother sent me a very nice, apologetic e-mail explaining the problem - mostly that her son simply failed to mail the coin.
What a relief--nice to hear it worked out!
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bmanofnbc's Avatar
United States
1424 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2008  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bmanofnbc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd just like to add that the buyer has some obligatons as well...
If I buy something on ebay or this forum or anywhere else for that matter and I "didn't notice" part of the item description, why should the seller have to pay return shipping for my mistake?

Also, the buyer should always notify the seller when an item is received and note wether its in good condition or not.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188952 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2008  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I can now state that my problem with not receiving a coin after winning it on an ebay auction seems to be resolved...
Good to hear!
Edited by jbuck
09/12/2008 10:50 pm
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