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1965 FS Jefferson Nickel. Very High Auction Price. Full Steps?

 
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Valued Member
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95 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  10:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
OK..I tend to write novels. Let me keep this short. My original source for this subject is the September 4th COINWEEK Edition, where they note this as a Highlight of the week coin.

Link: https://coinweek.com/auctions-news/...-rare-coins/

1. First set of Pictures are of David Lawrence nickel on auction block for $46,000+ because it has Full Steps. PCGS MS66 FS (see above Link...scroll down on first page a bit).

2. Second set of pictures are my nickel. MS condition IMO. I purchased this same nickel for .99 cents, and on the way (as usual, lol. Impatient I guess to take my own pictures before asking).

3. Then pictures of STEPS of both nickels. Pictures are from Auction site for 46K Nickel, and pictures of my newb nickel provided by seller. For now all I have.

4. My question is...I see equivalent STEPS condition on both for what I can see. If true, how is that price justified? That rare? Just looking for any experienced knowledge on this nickel. Just found they are rare (supposedly). But professional sites touting.

Link: https://www.davidlawrence.com/produ...ce=coinweek#

Here's pictures. Close? Same? No comparison...go back to sleep newb, you're reaching again? Thx.

David Lawrence Nickel:








The reaching Newbie Nickel:





Edited by BuyGuns
09/07/2019 10:41 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
4599 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your nickel looks more like a nickel from an SMS set.

Your pictures are not clear enough to tell whether the steps are full or not.

Anybody that pays David Lawrence (or anybody else trying to sell a full step 65 nickel) 46k$ for it needs to make an appointment with a psychiatrist for a head examination.
Edited by westernsky
09/07/2019 10:43 pm
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United States
95 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  10:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
HaHa. Wow. My newbness. I guess it is. What is that and how does it change steps deal or differences? May need to delete post.

Update: just checked. Special Mint Set. So I imagine this not being a standard circulated minted coin disqualifies as rare. Lesson learned. Thx. (back to sleep)

Understood on David Lawrence. But featured in COINWEEK? A pro publication? And a supposed pro dealer? That seems strange to me. No loss. I like the nickel. .99 lol I agree...46K. Nuts But it's right there on link.

It is noted NGC price guide has 1965 MS65 5FS @ $5000, and a number of other dates much more for same condition. crazy

To all who take a look? Apologies foe wasting your time. Moving on...
Edited by BuyGuns
09/07/2019 10:57 pm
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 Posted 09/07/2019  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a unicorn nickel, a date that's remarkably difficult to find with full steps in a grade that's remarkably difficult to find no matter what.
Philly struck 131 million of those 1965 nickels (some were actually made in 1964) and of those 131 million coins only two (!) have graded MS Full Steps at PCGS.
That makes this coin one of two known examples (at PCGS) of a FS 1965 Philly Jefferson and also the top pop FS coin for the date.

The 1965 MS65 5FS is listed at $10,000 and David Lawrence sold the MS 66 FS coin for $40,000 in 2008. It is currently listed for $46,000 + BP (only $6,000 appreciation in 11 years despite being the finest known example.)

Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC
Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
09/07/2019 11:06 pm
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 Posted 09/07/2019  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. So I see. I knew that all these Pro sources could not possibly be peddling low grade stuff. I get it. Just my complete lack of knowledge, and got excited momentarily, but I need to remember, if it seems to good to be true, it usually is. I said that in another post or two. It is real, just need to have the background to know why. Sure, as westernsky posted, it would be nuts to pay that...IF, it was just a basic coin with common conditions, but you straightened me out. Ok...as I also said, lesson learned. Good intentions by all. Thx
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 Posted 09/08/2019  12:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OP...

Don't be discouraged. This is all a learning process and it don't get "learned" overnight! You are not wasting anyone's time.

The 46k$ nickel is one of those things that NEVER, EVER gets busted out of it's slab because the Grading Gods might not see it in the same light again. This is a crazy hobby/business and funny things can happen.

Chances are, and the odds are pretty good, that out of some of those other 131,000,000 +/- 1965 nickels might also be full steps and might even grade 67 or 68 FS.....they just haven't been discovered yet. If so, and one gets slabbed that high, what then happens to the poor smuck that paid 46k$ for his 66? His top pop 66 nickel just got shot out of the saddle and the newly crowned king of 67 or 68 will become the standard of excellence and command the new benchmark price. Does his 66 still warrant 46k$? Is it even worth half that?

It can get crazy when you think about it.
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 Posted 09/08/2019  01:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Appreciate the encouragement western. Yes, I am new, but enough time to have already seen some crazy things 'coin'. I get that pricing dilemma you explained. But the more I get into this, no matter the wins and losses, it just makes me more determined to learn this business. I love history, and coins are definitely a big part of history, and tell a story. Like my Mercury Die Clash I posted. Very cool accidental find. I contacted Jason Cuvelier on Mad Clash web site. To see having it added to the other six already attributed. Awaiting his reply, but if done, I get a coin published and a great example of coin history regarding Mint variety's, etc. Not bad for a newb. Lol

And just got this gorgeous nickel for $18. A keeper. Looks like one of those rare 1964's, but I think it's a proof. He is not a seller who has bunches of crazy toned coins. That is sure sign of AT. This was only one he had. Nice to add to my pile. Display, etc. Even if fake, it looks really smooth. Lol


Anyway...thx again for the positive attitude.



Edited by BuyGuns
09/08/2019 02:09 am
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 Posted 09/08/2019  01:15 am  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks NT to me, lovely Jefferson, and westernsky is right on the money about the odds eventually not being in that coin's favor!
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC
Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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 Posted 09/08/2019  01:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yea. Heck...for the fact it is pretty I will throw it on the grading post and see what folks think. Too much fun. :-)
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 Posted 09/08/2019  03:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice looking 1964 nickel....it looks proof to me! Best guess on a grade would be "67".

As long as you enjoy the hobby is really all that matters. I step back every once in a while and take a break but always come back.

I've been collecting and accumulating since the 1960's. I've done a lot of stupid stuff but have hit my share of "home runs", too! I try to stay interested, active and offer encouragement to others.

I can attest that this coin community ...CCF.... is the best. There are a lot of great and knowledgeable people here that are willing to share their knowledge. All you gotta do is ask!
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 Posted 09/08/2019  04:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Understood western. Fantastic folks on this site. I love I can ask their opinion. About 18 months for me off and on. I retired from my second career. Early, as I made some good investments, savings, plus monthly retirement Thank You's from my past jobs. Haha. So among other interests, this has been a nice addition. Got my nurse daughter getting into it to. In fact a bit earlier she asked about the 1943 penny thing. lol. So I let her in on that, but said look but don't waste too much time on that coin. Better chance hitting the lottery. But she gets it now, so keep an eye out. :-) My three adult sons at least listening. :-) Peaking their interest. But enjoyable for sure.
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 Posted 09/08/2019  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thankfully, FS nickels are one addiction I don't have.
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 Posted 09/08/2019  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coinfrog...that's a good one. :-) Just in the short time I have looked at this Jefferson nickel history, and all the variations that come with it, I am more confused now than ever. Lol. I get the basics. Just too many unknowns. But I love a challenge. I will keep digging as I go. That's why we have CCF & TPG's. Amen
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 Posted 09/09/2019  09:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thankfully, FS nickels are one addiction I don't have.

Detecting FS Nickels could fry your brains especially if your a senior collector . One would need at least a high powered loupe or better still a decent microscope . Don't let this discourage you from sorting these Bad Boys out , the monetary rewards would be overwhelming .
Proud Member of The Black Sheep Squadron !
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 Posted 09/09/2019  09:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not a fan of any Jefferson nickels. I have several sets but only because they are coins.
just carl
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 Posted 09/09/2019  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Understood gentlemen. I will only throw this point out there as you guys commented. I did do more research. Still nothing conclusive EXCEPT...on PCGS Coin Facts, where they show the only two or three SMS nickels, led me to Newman Numismatic Portal Washington University, which led to a Heritage Auctions Catalog This is a portion of one of those SMS descriptions:

"This piece shows an amazing, sculptural depth of detail that is uniformly absent on business strikes, yet fully equal to the strike on a proof coin. The finish however, is non reflective, with heavy die polishing lines that are a theme with variations on the 1964 SMS coinage. On the reverse, not only are the five Steps complete (the bottom sixth step is not), but most of the small steps on the porticos on each side are complete as well..."

HA also has a description for an SMS again from a PCGS grading. It says this:

"This piece is razor sharp, with the characteristic faint die striations in the fields. Each side displays a blush of light Gold toning, and the preservation is virtually flawless"

My points...other general descriptions I found state similar 'no sixth step" about SMS, although does that mean on 'some' variations, or all? And the 'Golden toning' is a common theme as well. Yup. But who knows.

I'll find out about my coin when the professionals tell us what it is. "That's a nice Proof sir"

Or the highly unlikely scenario..."Congratulations sir, it's a SMS. A Beauty."

Or, not beyond the realm of possibility as I saw some beauty's..."That's an exceptional Business strike sir."

It's fun to dream. To hope.

Much more to learn

(NOTE: I have the microscope LOL. Showed those pics from using it on Buffalo nickel posts. Very useful tool. Onward....)
Edited by BuyGuns
09/09/2019 9:11 pm
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