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Domitian Denarius Not Sure On This One.

 
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Valued Member
United States
72 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2019  2:40 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bcuda to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I purchased this Denarius of Domitian and I just don't have a good feeling about it. I have went over it using all the different things to look at and can not find anything that says it is a fake. What do you all think ?




Edited by bcuda
10/13/2019 4:03 pm
Valued Member
France
167 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2019  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Check ancient67's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ancient67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have a good feeling either ...
Valued Member
France
167 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2019  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Check ancient67's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ancient67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do you have a possibility to take a picture of the slice?
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United States
22619 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2019  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
orfew (Andrew) is our expert on Domitian Denarii he would be able to say for sure. IMO the coin looks OK. The surface does appear to be porous and the letter look odd, but that could be caused by what environment it was exposed too.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3040 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2019  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Check FVRIVS RVFVS's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Flow lines
Corrosion and wear to boot !
A real trifecta
The arts of deception have reached new heights
I don't like
IN GOD WE TRVST ....... all others pay cash !

COGITO ERGO SPVD
I think ...... therefore I yam
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1241 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2019  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add orfew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You were quite right to be suspicious. In my opinion it is a modern forgery. The key for me is the nose. If you look at the early portraits of Domitian they all have a very unflattering nose. The nose has a bump and an angle. This coin of Domitian has a very angular smooth nose. I suspected it right away for this this reason. I then had a look on forgery network and noticed examples that are very close to the OP coin and also have the smooth angular nose. In the years after 81 CE the nose becomes smoother and less realistic. As the OP coin was supposedly issued under Vespasian we should expect to see a realistic and unsanitized nose. Take a look on Acsearch and search for Domitian pegasus. You will see what I mean.

The images on forgery network do not show a die match. However, they are very close in style to the OP coin. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
"Cave ab homine unius libri"
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
16015 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2019  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The texture of the field surfaces suggest pressure casting to me. The sprue point may have bee at 7 o'clock on the reverse.

The lack of edge splits is sometimes indicative of casting.
Pillar of the Community
United States
542 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2019  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add travelcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Orfew very nice description - very Sherlock Holmesish - Nose looks very much like a denari of Tiberius - My first impression was that it was suspect, but I would not have condemned it.
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United States
22619 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2019  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I glad Andrew was able to confirm it being a fake, it would have fooled me. One reason why I don't collect Romans any longer.
Valued Member
United States
72 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2019  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bcuda to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I received a reply from the seller and I posted another post with an update but it was deleted, I am not sure why?

Anyway here is what the seller had to say:

Hello We are very sorry for this situation, we also have numismatic experts who check every single coin from our store, .We do not sell copies of coins. There is no way to allow this. But to resolve the dispute, please request an opinion:


(URL of another Ancient coin forum)(This is probably why my other post was deleted I assume but not sure)

Identification_Your_Ancient_Coin_.html We will accept the opinion of them. .Please send a picture of the coin there, for free, we hope to resolve the dispute. Thank you and keep us posted.
Valued Member
United States
72 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2019  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bcuda to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are 3 more pics to help get a better idea on it. I hope they help.
Also I sent an e-mail to echizento and orfew

Thank you everyone !




Pillar of the Community
United States
3040 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2019  07:39 am  Show Profile   Check FVRIVS RVFVS's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since the seller apparently does not have a reasonable return policy you might as well name them
They deserve the recognition
BTW
I didn't have a huge problem with the proboscis
But the ear jumped right out at me
It may actually be the sprue point
The edges are a definite giveaway
They look to have been flattened
IN GOD WE TRVST ....... all others pay cash !

COGITO ERGO SPVD
I think ...... therefore I yam
Valued Member
United States
72 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2019  09:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bcuda to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The seller of this coin is from E-bay.
The auction all of a sudden has been removed from any e-bay history also does not show up in my purchase history on e-bay.
Also the return policy is not very good considering I have to post it on another forum and ask for opinions before they might possibly say yes to a return.
They have a few denarius listed in auction that seem to have the same funky look as this one.

Seller name is: blitz1978e.u
Pillar of the Community
United States
3040 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2019  10:30 am  Show Profile   Check FVRIVS RVFVS's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A quick look through half his inventory doesn't show anything very suspicious
In fact they look like decent quality lower end ancients mostly auctions
I think you should try "honey"
Tell him you are dissatisfied and want to return the piece
It's fairly standard practice with 'online' purchases

Of course you will probably need to pay the return postage !
That's also fairly standard
IN GOD WE TRVST ....... all others pay cash !

COGITO ERGO SPVD
I think ...... therefore I yam
Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS
10/15/2019 10:32 am
Valued Member
Canada
60 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2019  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Claudius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hard to 100% condemn that coin by just looking at a photo...
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
16015 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2019  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a feeling that he is an honest seller, but
occasionally a sus coin can have it's own luck to escape seller's scrutiny.
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