Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsCoin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics 300,000 items to help build your collection! Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Does Anyone Know The History Of This Coin Or The Referenced Auction?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 24 / Views: 3,882Next Topic
Page: of 2
CCF Advertiser
Learn More...
louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  09:23 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I don't own it, from a safety deposit box find someone is offering me. But I usually stay away from gold. 4.4 grams 20 mm diameter. Anyone know this pedigree or coin past history?

Does-Anyone-Know-The-History-Of-This-Coin-Or-The-Referenced-Auction?
Does-Anyone-Know-The-History-Of-This-Coin-Or-The-Referenced-Auction?
Moderator
Learn More...
echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  09:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I usually avoid Byzantine gold coins for two reasons, one they are too expensive and two they are often faked. This example appears genuine and is Sear 734.
Pillar of the Community
fioti's Avatar
United States
4212 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fioti to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know nothing of what you're asking, but the hair on my neck stood up seeing staples & gold in close proximity.
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  11:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a very decent example. Byzantine gold really requires expert evaluation. These have been forged very well.

No help with the auction reference.
Moderator
Learn More...
Spence's Avatar
United States
34418 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@lks, my German is a little rusty, but I don't think that there is any mention of an auction on this 2x2. Rather the second line would translate roughly as "Ruled from October 5, 610 through January 11, 641 (AD)."
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
CCF Advertiser
Learn More...
louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spence: THANKS! Obviously you are correct. The only thing to do is send it off to NGC to be sure I imagine.
CCF Advertiser
Learn More...
louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2019  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK I have the coin in my hands now and it measures 20 mm and weighs 4.46 grams on my balance.
The 5 photos below I just took. The next time you will see me post on this topic is when I get it back from NGC slabbed or rejected and I will post their reply in the form of a photo of what they send back either way. So I figure it is worth the $35 gamble to pay NGC. Feel free to register your bets on if real or not and we can have some fun whenever this is finally sent back to me from NGC folks.

Does-Anyone-Know-The-History-Of-This-Coin-Or-The-Referenced-Auction?
Does-Anyone-Know-The-History-Of-This-Coin-Or-The-Referenced-Auction?
Does-Anyone-Know-The-History-Of-This-Coin-Or-The-Referenced-Auction?
Does-Anyone-Know-The-History-Of-This-Coin-Or-The-Referenced-Auction?
Does-Anyone-Know-The-History-Of-This-Coin-Or-The-Referenced-Auction?
Moderator
Learn More...
echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2019  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One thing that concerns me is the absence of flow lines from the strike. IMO for as much as it's worth is it's a copy.
Pillar of the Community
Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2019  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Found another Constantinople issue with what might be an obverse die match. Link and collage below. Allowing for differences in the photos' perspective and lighting, as well as the coins' wear, there does seem to be a decent amount of agreement in the obverse lettering and - especially - the folds of the fabric. Obverse match?

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4096561


Does-Anyone-Know-The-History-Of-This-Coin-Or-The-Referenced-Auction?
Edited by Kamnaskires
08/31/2019 8:28 pm
New Member
United States
10 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2019  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add odysseos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The die match looks reasonable, but could indicate either a genuine or a copy. The numerous small, fine surface scratches seem unusual, a bit more evident in the field than on the raised features, but could have worn smooth there, perhaps by cleaning or rubbing. The reddish highlighting around the senior Heraclius' lower face is unusual, but could indicate contact with another material during storage, or could be an artifact of the lighting. From the photos, I don't see anything that would prove the item's origin.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was under the impression that NGC is strictly in the business of grading coins and clearly states (in the smallest print available)
that they in no way guarantee the authenticity of the item
No parchment
No gold lettering
No signature of the Grand Poobah
Why not send it to D Sear ?
You know
An expert in these matters ?
CCF Advertiser
Learn More...
louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC will not grade a coin they feel is a fake that is modern and will send it back with a detailed explaination. So that works for me as I get the nice slab and hologram which I enjoy so much if they don't discredit it. I know this as I sold a turtle years ago and because of my lifetime guarantee a buyer sent it back to me years later with the NGC rejection saying it was a museum electrotype and I refunded the buyer. Hence the reason I can't sell this until I get it through NGC as the buyer will send it off anyway so whynot do it myself and get more for the coin if I get through the process I figure.
Edited by louisvillekyshop
09/02/2019 11:12 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  11:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the buyer is nothing but a "trophy" hunter he will send it out to be entombed in plastic
I myself have no patience for the practice
NGC will of course reject an obvious reproduction
But they also decline to give a lifetime guarantee to those who would pay them
And how exactly does another authority render an opinion without cracking open the 'tomb' ?
Will they re-inter the "loved" one free of charge ?
A museum electrotype is all they really deserve .........

Has anyone ever gone to a Museum and seen coins displayed inside of plastic slabs ?
CCF Advertiser
Learn More...
louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
FVRIVS RVFVS;

We all have roles in life and luckily you are apparently in a position to represent the purest of intentions to ensure people adhere to certain standards in ancient coin collecting. Thus you can very rightly give correct opinions on the way ancient coins should be treated and dealt with which is admirable. The world does need people who stand for best practices, I mean that sincerely and have no issue at all with your comments.

My roles in life are different but still I hope to be a necessary part in society. I teach chemistry hoping to create the next generation of scientists and health care professionals and quite a few have said my approach of trying to cover as many theories as possible neglects the benefit a student can have from a class that covers less but in more depth as critical thinkers are more important and a good student can learn the rest of the theories themselves. These professors who tell me this are completely correct and we need them to stand for standards even as I have a different opinion of what is important to me in my classroom.

I sing in the temple on Shabbat for services and clearly I am not a cantor and my Hebrew is always corrected by the older members of the congregation but there are very few men who can do my lower key and the temple can't always have a cantor available so I just always say, you folks are right and I'll try harder. But the Religion does need people who keep the language pronounced properly and I am always in their debt even though I continue to sing below their standards.

And finally I am a coin dealer who has people consign coins with me for percentage and the person who actually owns this coin, who found it in the unclaimed safe deposit box I mentioned originally, they expect I will find the best way to sell the coin to maximize their share of the selling price. I am not splitting the $35 I use to have NGC look at the coin, if fake I just lose and the person who owns the coin just is out a fake coin and I am out $35. But I feel humbly that this is the best way to maximize the final selling price for the client and I completely recognize that sending it to Sear is a more correct choice I just won't be doing.

So in closing this is quite a recurring theme in my life, and I recognize I don't apparently do anything to appropriate standards of any academy. So your words do resonate sir and again you are more correct than I on your points.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  1:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My sole objection (outside of the ritual entombment) is the perpetuation of the myth that NGC confers a validity otherwise unattainable
I have sold $12 coins only to have someone send it back because they expected it to be accompanied by a sacred scroll declaring it to be "holy"
Likewise I once sold a Caligula provincial for $48
(conveniently ID'd by our experts here)
The seller description clearly stated that the surfaces had been scraped
The buyer sent me a FVRIVS email that he had spent $50 and NGC had returned the coin un sanctified
Apparently he felt he was owed something by me
I offered him a full $48 refund for its return

I spent 24 years working drop forges banging out steel hardware for US Navy contracts
Child labor ....... I was 16
(actually 14 come to think of it ! the old man started me at 12 in my bedroom assembling ice fishing lures ...... 2 cents apiece)
Another 22 years driving a Taxi
I have seen all types of people in my time
But I remain a flaming Massachusetts lefty till the day I die
Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS
09/02/2019 1:22 pm
CCF Advertiser
Learn More...
louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
FVRIVS RVFVS;

NGC States: "NGC Ancients will only grade coins that it believes to be genuine." But they also are careful not to guarantee this. Translation, the guy doing the work at NGC thinks the coin is real but won't guarantee this. In short they believe the coin is real but won't give you any money back if the coin is not.

David Sear States: "Each Certificate bears the signature of David R. Sear and has its own serial number." So his certificate offers "confirmation of authenticity. It offers a level of expertise unrivaled by any other grading and certification service in the world." Translation, he never says he guarantees anything he just says he is the top authority in the world and that is all you will need and is the final word on the subject period.

What David Sear says is true of course, but you can just think of NGC as being more humble and accepting others may not agree so they can't offer a guarantee. And David Sear says he is just the top authority and thus you don't need a guarantee.

The two just have different ways of speaking but neither will ever refund you anything I imagine, the first just accepts they can be wrong and the second is quite sure he never will be wrong. And I am not saying he ever is of course.

Edited by louisvillekyshop
09/02/2019 2:27 pm
  Previous TopicReplies: 24 / Views: 3,882Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.49 seconds to rattle this change. Forums