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Transylvania Thaler 159z

 
 
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
240 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2019  4:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add stratocaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi!

I recently purchased this coin, it's a bit battered, but the price seemed right.

This is the only other coin of the same variety I could find:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/l...02-NGC-ef-45
And it seems to be a die match for both sides. Mine is not as nice obviously, so I would like to hear your opinions on the grade and value.

Thank you!


Pillar of the Community
United States
2673 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2019  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great looking coin. I think the condition would still get at least a grade in the VF range.
However, is that evidence of earlier mounting on the reverse about 1:00? If so, I guess that would also be taken into account ("details" grade? I am not really sure how this works).

If it is correct that the coin has been previously mounted, the value is what you just paid. I'm not trying to be funny, but I think each sale of a coin with damage is unique. I have one rare coin in my collection from the same era with mounting damage worse than this. I paid 15-20% of the price a similar unmounted example would have sold for.

Bedrock of the Community
United States
18448 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2019  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree, definitely VF, probably 25 or 30. Hard to say from the photos if it would get a "details" grade.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
240 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2019  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stratocaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for your great feedback!

Indeed there are some marks above the R. Maybe previous mounting. It's not quite in the right place, but it's close. There is also no other trace at all on the other side or on the edge.

Some high contrast close-ups below. But they magnify the tool marks a lot. In hand it's really hard to see them. These would give a details grade right?






Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1736 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2019  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I paid 15-20% of the price a similar unmounted example would have sold for.


That strikes a chord with me, at least for 19th/20th century coins.

However, I think as one goes back in time, I think that percentage should go up.

A couple of years ago. I paid 30% for 4 Swedish coins that had been mounted with a button shank. Perhaps I paid too much, but groups of 4 silver buttons regularly fetch 70+ here, and I paid less than that.

A few months ago an EF William the Conqueror penny with a hole in the field in a Spink auction fetched 95% of what an EF penny of the same type/mint. That seemed too much but there must have been an under-bidder.
Life Fellow, Royal Numismatic Society

My wants list: http://goccf.com/t/283145
Pillar of the Community
United States
2673 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2019  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not to hijack the thread, but here is the coin to which I referred. Much more evident mounting damage, but quite a rare coin.
http://www.coinfactswiki.com/wiki/L...1588_1/2_ecu
Valued Member
United Kingdom
240 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  04:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stratocaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you!
It's actually great to read about your experience with mounted coins!
@tdziemia, it's still a nice coin with an interesting history!
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2851 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  05:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For coins of that kind, I would gladly get them at a decent price, mounting or minor damage or not.

How often do you see Transylvania Thalers, anyway. Here in North America at least.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
240 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stratocaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For coins of that kind, I would gladly get them at a decent price, mounting or minor damage or not.

How often do you see Transylvania Thalers, anyway. Here in North America at least.


My thoughts precisely! Whenever one of these pops up, it goes for a price I can't afford, so I was happy to pay 10-15% of the price and finally add one to my collection.

I like it because of the coat of arms. It's not the finest style, but the three dragon teeth are quite a statement. It's a reference to the founder of the Bathory house who slayed a dragon with three thrusts of his spear.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2673 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2019  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the three dragon teeth are quite a statement.


They also appear on Polish coins from the reign of king Stefan Bathory like this 3 groschen, but they need to share space with other emblems of Poland and Lithuania, so are not so impressive:




Valued Member
United Kingdom
240 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2019  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stratocaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice one tdziemia! thanks for sharing
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