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1925 Stone Mountain 50c Commemorative. Stunning Tone/Detail. Grade.

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 Posted 12/03/2019  09:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You can call me 'TONE Mountain'
A name worthy of a vanity slab!
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 Posted 12/05/2019  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
'Vanity Slab'? I like it. This coin don't care. "Slab me!! The TONE'ster has spoken". Meh....Flip will do.
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 Posted 12/05/2019  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This coin don't care. "Slab me!! The TONE'ster has spoken".
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 Posted 12/05/2019  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BGLI to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is perfect example of what I find as a relative new collector and trying to learn more. This coin is stunning and to me has outstanding eye appeal. I have a difficult time seeing the value of some MS 66-67s that would cost 15X the cost of this coin. I would prefer to have this one in my album for $54!! My opinion might change as I learn more but my budget probably wont! nice buy
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 Posted 12/06/2019  03:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BGLI...I am right there with you. Well said. I will never reach the level I need to determine actual grading levels, or some of the technical details that professionals see, or folks here on CC that have been at it for a long time. Too old. Not enough time. That's why there is CC. Training/Experience is key.

But your point on the grading, such 66/67/68 coins that command much larger premiums than if my coin presented here, were graded as a AU55/58. Technically, that is probably what would happen grading wise.

But as you also noted, having this for $54 in your collection as I do, is all that matters. Truly, in hand it is absolutely stunning. Crisp. Sharp. I don't see any defects as I hold it. I just see a deep multi iridescent colored silver coin, with a fantastic design, cartwheel luster, and eye appeal off the charts. It would be a shame to be graded so low. But that's the way it goes when looked at professionally as they have an obligation to conform to established Standards.

NOW...I will tell you one of my major frustrations....is seeing a Stone Mountain 50c coin (or any coin) graded a MS68, as there are only a hand full, and sold in the low to high $20,000 range. Then compare my sample to them side by side in HD pictures (which I did), and the differences ever so slight, but my sample would be graded AU55/58. Worth about what I paid for it...$50 to $60. Yup. I just don't get it sometimes. But in reality I do get it, and have to defer to the Pro's, and go with it.

And, there is always the favoritism angle that can rear its ugly head, where some 'extra' consideration may be given for a coin(s) due to the 'important' client they belong to. Just sayin. Though TPG's are 'supposed' to not know who the coin belongs to, in order to avoid this from happening. But that would never take place...right?

I noted in another thread that I have seen MS67's that I could not understand. Looked way worse than a lower graded similar sample. Then a AU55 that looks better than the MS samples I compared to, and so on. I just don't understand it at times, but again...there are things we don't see, that the Pro's do, and they grade to those Standards that are established.

But we can never ignore, nor deny......THE HUMAN FACTOR. Oh yea. These TPG's are human. And they very well could take as an example...my Stone Mountain coin...look at it for a grade, and see that off the chart eye appeal, and sway them to maybe 'waive' some small otherwise disqualifying imperfections, and grade that bad boy a very high MS grade, just because it screams "look at me!! I am the bomb!!" Lol

Hey, and that coin gets slabbed at a MS-67+. Some may cry foul! I know it has to happen (does not mean it should) because I have looked at so many coin comparisons, and though not a Pro by any measure....there is an element of common sense, and I can see that a particular coin I am looking at, may not technically be near flawless, but the eye appeal overrides it all. The HUMAN Factor. It absolutely plays a part. It does in all things in life. Yes sir. Some may or will disagree. That's ok. I may not have coin experience in droves, but I have life experience, and it applies here in many cases.

Another angle/question...We as buyers of coins? Why do PCGS Stone Mountain 50C MS-68 graded coins command $20,000+...and the same coin graded by NGC at MS-68, only commands $5000? Same Standards. Pro graded. They all look similar. Yet a $15,000+ difference a buyer is willing to pay for a PCGS vs NGC graded coin (at least for this coin type). The same coin. The same grade. We humans can be strange. But that's the way it is. PCGS has somehow established their grading prowess as the industry bomb! What's their secret? NGC is a perfectly professional and established grading company. Go figure.

However...having said all that, I will say this...it is probably prudent to not use the human factor reason to send coins into TPG's based solely on it looks good, so the technical won't matter. You/We will more than likely go broke with that method. Lol. We have our frustrations, complaints, opinions, etc., but at the end of the day (hate that phrase), more times than not, our coins will get properly graded on merit, and not emotion (eye appeal overriding established Standards). Anything different would be the exception and not the rule. So, CC is the place to come to get that consensus needed on any particular coin. Or your local established Coin Dealer. Your wallet will thank you.

Ultimately....grading be damned. Just collect these fine pieces of history and enjoy it. The hunt is a blast as well. Enjoy. Ok...I need to cut the coffee. Lol. Rambling again. Take care.
Edited by BuyGuns
12/06/2019 8:44 pm
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 Posted 12/06/2019  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Why do PCGS Stone Mountain 50C MS-68 graded coins command $20,000+...and the same coin graded by NGC at MS-68, only commands $5000? Same Standards. Pro graded. They all look similar. Yet a $15,000+ difference a buyer is willing to pay for a PCGS vs NGC graded coin


I would venture to say that this is all due to registry set competition - bragging rights can empty your wallet!
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 Posted 12/06/2019  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bump111...point noted. Learn something new every day.
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 Posted 12/09/2019  12:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add freddo30 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A local coin dealer recently passed on at age 86 ; he'd have graded the coin a curt "$54."
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 Posted 12/09/2019  6:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-$54 ? I like it. That settles it. It's all good.

However....on a serious not. RIP Sir.
Edited by BuyGuns
12/09/2019 7:55 pm
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 Posted 12/09/2019  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Check yellow88's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My goodness that is SWEET!

Simply beautiful.

You very lucky and I very jealous ;-)
"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away."- philip k dick

eBay store: https://www.ebay.com/str/globalcoin...collectibles
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 Posted 12/11/2019  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Outstanding!
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there's no problems only solutions - the late, great John Lennon
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 Posted 07/01/2020  12:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grapecollects? You are scary. AU55 Nailed it.

Having noted that, and credit given where credit is due, and other folks not far off, I need something from you fine folks. You owe me nothing. I get that.

But I posted my Clearview from PCGS....and.....a number of Clearview graded PCGS samples.

A level playing field. No more what-ifs. Here we are.

I would like to know if someone can explain the technical reasons, or any reason, why the Stone Mountain I submitted got lumped in with the numerous AU55 (go see for yourself on PCGS) hideous looking and clearly worn beyond commom sense, 50C Stone Mountain samples?

I understand the TPG's see things we don't, and are highly educated for this task. I am highly educated, but not for coins, but my brain housing group does function in the common sense reality realm (most of the time), but again, a level playing field now, and my brain has just stalled on a word I think comes into play here......CONSISTENCY. Yes, I do NOT see it here. I hope someone can give a detiled and realistic explanation of the 'why'.

And, I see this as an opportunity for the Bedrocks and Pillars here to educate we Pebbles on why what we see makes sense...or does it?

I truly want to learn what to be looking for in future coins as this has raised some serious questions in my mind. The MS68+'s are ~TEN grades away from my submitted coin. How is that possible...CONSIDERING my comparison posts from PCGS? Again, I really am trying to learn why there is such a wide gap with authentically graded samples we can all see for comparison. I am all eye's Lol

I will also say I have the same question for other lowly graded coins I sent. Same comparisons, same . Lol

Yes...I am sure I will get the why it's a AU55...but I can't wait to hear how it is compared accurately/technically to the slop of AU55's I see on PCGS, and there are many. Ok. Here's the picture samples:

Appreciate any input.

MY GRADED COIN (AU55)



PCGS GRADED SAMPLES (MS68+)




PCGS GRADED SAMPLES (AU55)





PCGS GRADED SAMPLE (MS64)


Edited by BuyGuns
07/01/2020 12:27 am
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 Posted 08/05/2020  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add msl2196 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@BuyGuns I too have wondered the same thing many times. The second AU-55 sample is awful (for grade, anyway). The details on the eagle are almost completely worn off. The third barely even has words "LIBERTY" and "VALOR".

As for yours, when I was reading through the first page of this, I disagreed with the others and thought this would get an MS-65 or so. In your third original picture set, which shows the third dimension more clearly than the others (and, for that matter, on the PCGS set), I don't see the wear on Lee's elbow/horse's leg that the others do--or at least, it seems no worse to me in comparison to other PCGS MS examples, anyway.

I think your coin is a beautiful piece, regardless of grade--with a solid strike and toning that adds a bit of character, but isn't ridiculous (like some of the 68's that just look like a weirdly-colored shiny object and no longer actually resemble a coin). In fact, I'd go as far as to say that I think it's actually, in practice, one of the best examples I've ever seen.

On the other hand, would I be likely to actually buy it? No. In an ideal world, where coin value is proportional to its average subjective aesthetic quality, this piece should be worth about $600-700 in my opinion (and beat out many of the 65's/66's currently on eBay). Unfortunately, though, we don't live in an ideal world--and in a world where sight-unseen transactions dominate, I realize that the number on the holder will mean more with respect to the long-term value of the coin than, say, the actual coin. It would not surprise me at all if someone could put a piece of feces in a Stone Mountain MS-68 slab and sell it for $1,500. Many on this site, I'm sure, will disagree with me here--and say, "Buy the coin, not the slab." But if we wish to learn, we must learn based on the reality. I, for one, have lost far too much money on unslabbed coins--and will not be making that mistake again. It's a d**n shame, though.
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