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1840 Republic Mexicana 8R - Real Or Fake?

 
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New Member
United States
14 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2020  01:45 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Shaw119 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I found this coin while metal detecting on my families farm. I am trying to determine if it is real or fake. The mint Mark is worn but appears to be Is - it potentially is Js. Looking for opinions.

Bedrock of the Community
United States
32084 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2020  05:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please crop photos before posting...thanks. Weight? Diameter? Edge photos?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
Edited by John1
01/16/2020 05:15 am
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United States
2997 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2020  07:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have that coin, but I have that dish towel

There are experts on Mexico coins who will weigh in...Very nice find!
New Member
United Kingdom
17 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2020  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add offimatrix to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks real to me and well worn. Nice find
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United States
1405 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2020  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A "contemporary counterfeit" of a Mexican Cap & Rays 8 Reales - meaning a counterfeit made around that time to pass as real. These type of pieces are plentiful for the Cap & Ray's 8R... though yours is an interesting variety, with the fantasy "Is" mintmark. It is a known type in fairly decent condition for a ground find.

What state was it discovered in?
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United States
4920 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2020  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Shaw119

What you have discovered is in fact a Contemporary Circulating Counterfeit 8 reales. It is a die match to the Riddell # 425 plate coin.

This is not a particularly common counterfeit. It is a fantasy mint mark Is was never in fact used. I own 6 examples of the type all about the grade of yours and there are some variations in the metallic composition. I have one that is struck in bronze or copper and has no trace of silver plating at all - it is underweight. The coin Riddell encountered and included in his book was assayed as 450/1000 silver by the mint. This debased silver coin was found to weigh 27 grams. So it did contain about 50 cents worth of metal. These earlier debased silver issues are most likely scarcer than the later plated versions. A counterfeit worth half of face value would have been turned in for melting at the mint to recover some of the loss.

This coin is also the very last numbered entry in the 8R section of Mexico.

Nice coin that should sell well to an interested collector of counterfeits. It should not be cleaned or damaged to preserve the value.

I agree it would be interesting to know the exact location of the find and the relation if any to areas that were settled prior to 1857. Was it found in an old dump area - along side an old roadway or cart path? Were any other items found in the proximity? Since these coins were legal tender in the US until 1857 and circulated freely all over the country it is not a really surprising find.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
Valued Member
United States
426 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2020  03:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RealPeso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome find indeed and a contemporary counterfeit of all makes the find even more interesting.
New Member
United States
14 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2020  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Shaw119 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin was found at my family's farm in Kentucky. I have found several coins near the old homestead that was built in 1870's. The house burned down in 1960. My great aunt was married to a guy with the last name De Soto. His linage traces back to Hernado de Soto.

What would the approximate value for this coin be? I doubt I will ever sell it, but would be interested to know.
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United States
4920 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2020  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Shaw119 What a counterfeit brings at auction is always conjectural. It depends on who see's the coin and who has interest in the particular variety. I have purchased similar counterfeits for as little as $25 and have had to pay well over $100 for others. I have not done a detailed comparison for an exact die match with all 6 of my examples, however, if for example it used one different die it would fall in the over $100 category - if both dies were "new" varieties to me I would go higher.

This field of collecting is still maturing. Very little data exists on actual numbers of coins that exist and even less hard data exists on how solid the collector market actually is.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
New Member
United States
14 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2020  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Shaw119 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Swamperbob
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