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Trying To Get My Head Around The Premise Of A Gold CAC Sticker On An AU 58

 
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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 01/24/2020  12:36 pm Show Profile   Check shadowtrooper78's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add shadowtrooper78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
As the title states I'm trying to understand the concept of the Gold CAC sticker when applied to an AU 58 coin. The definition of a coin earning a gold sticker is that CAC thinks the coin would grade at the next grade level, and would be a strong example in that next grade level. So with an AU 58 example I am assuming they consider the coin to be mint state.

There have been numerous examples on the grading section where we have split graded AU 58 or MS 63/64 depending how it looks in hand.

In my experience most AU 58's look much better than 60 through 62 coins. I've come across some gold bean coins in my searches and have bid on a few. They tend to go for crazy numbers in my opinion. Here is the coin in question 1851/81 PCGS AU 58 Gold CAC. Surfaces look pleasing but it does appear to have light circulation. It's currently at top end MS 60 money with 2 days left.

Is this something that is as confusing to others as it is to me?



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 Posted 01/24/2020  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like some light circulation wear, so I would not consider this mint state despite the gold sticker. It's very attractive, but no way I'd pay MS money for it.
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 Posted 01/24/2020  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I respectfully disagree that "by definition" a CAC sticker implies that a coin would or should grade at the next level.
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 Posted 01/24/2020  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Check shadowtrooper78's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add shadowtrooper78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is what is on wikipedia regarding the CAC gold bean:
Coins that are definitely undergraded -- and would receive at least a green sticker in the next highest grade -- are bestowed gold stickers,[9] which on average increase values up to 90% or more of PCGS/NGC coins already graded the next highest grade.
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 Posted 01/24/2020  1:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
https://www.coinworld.com/news/prec...tickers.html

Quote:
CAC founder John Albanese describes it as a coin that could "easily green sticker at the next highest grade level."
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 Posted 01/24/2020  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GMS5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I must say that concept of the CAC sticker green or gold is silly to me at this point. It's an opinion of an opinion graded coin. If it expands then all holders will look like this soon I think.

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 Posted 01/24/2020  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenKat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the gold sticker says this coin looks better than equivalent 60 to 62 coins, similar to what you stated. It has a trace of wear so it can't be called uncirculated, but the luster, strike, etc. are better than low end uncirculated coins.
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 Posted 01/24/2020  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with KenKat. But I also agree with the OP, that "In my experience most AU 58's look much better than 60 through 62 coins." There would be an awful lot of AU-58 gold stickers if that were the only criteria, though it may well be in this case.
Working on: Indian quarter eagles, Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens; upgrading my Peace dollar and US Type sets

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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 Posted 01/24/2020  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"In my experience most AU 58's look much better than 60 through 62 coins."


AU-58 coins are 60-62 coins that have a little bit of wear. In many cases, AU-58 coins have better eye appeal because they don't have a bunch of bag marks on them.
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 Posted 01/24/2020  4:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add txgolfer56 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Often an AU58 will have the looks of an MS63 or MS64 but for a rub from circulation or careless handling.
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 Posted 01/24/2020  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grading is subjective and by no means scientific. I have found that coins grading from AU through MS65 tend to have a much greater chance at getting re-graded one point higher than those of lower grade or above MS65. More often than not when cross-grading from NGC to PCGS and vice versus. With or without that CAC sticker. In my opinion the grade is accurate at AU58, while personally I'd go one lower at 55 due to a few issues such as those scratches near the hair bun. But that's just me.

With the number of graded examples in the mint state ranges I see absolutely no justification as to why this or any 1851 in AU should bring prices nearly two full grades higher. To me, that's just silly. All for a sticker?

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 Posted 01/24/2020  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spaceace to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CAC stickers kind of seem odd to me anyhow. It seems like you are just grading another person's grade. One professional looks at a coin and grades it whatever they believe it to be, and then another person looks at it and gives their opinion on the opinion of the first person. Should we have another person add a "+" or "-" to the CAC sticker and then somebody else give a bonus smiley face if they deem it even better? It would be like a teacher giving a B and then another teacher reviewing that and saying it is really a B+ (when in fact the first teacher could have given a B+ but chose not to based on their opinion). I guess I get why people like the CAC stickers but we all know 5 people can look at the same coin and give it 5 different grades so really the CAC sticker is just one of those other peoples opinions so the bottom line is, you should evaluate the coin yourself and use your judgement in making an assessment.
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 Posted 01/24/2020  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CAC stickers are just another layered form of grading honed to today's buy-the-holder market. It's a gimmick aimed at novices and hustlers alike.

where the main beneficiary is CAC, which (let's face it) adds an arbitrary opinion on top of another arbitrary opinion. Just a money-grab.
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 Posted 01/24/2020  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
58s would be 62/63 in the vast majority of cases which is generally where the 58 CAC gold prices will fall.


Quote:
CAC stickers are just another layered form of grading honed to today's buy-the-holder market. It's a gimmick aimed at novices and hustlers alike.











, where the main beneficiary is CAC, which (let's face it) adds an arbitrary opinion on top of another arbitrary opinion. Just a money-grab.


People really need to stop with slanderous garbage posts like this. There's plenty of ACTUAL information on CAC that had been discussed ad nauseam including by me where people can actually educate themselves.
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