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Extra Copper On This 2004 P LMC?

 
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Valued Member
United States
325 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2020  2:17 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CouchDiver1978 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
At first I thought I was just looking at a scratched up Lincoln, but I quickly realized that the marks I was seeing were raised as opposed to incused. I tried to scratch some of it off with my fingernail and was unsuccessful and getting down at high magnification the texture of the extra metal appears to be similar to that of the normal devices on the coin surface.

I've been fooled before by superglue, as has many unsuspecting nubie, but this looks different from the ones I've seen in the past that were very shiny and translucent. I didn't really see any of that here. What do y'all think? Thanks in advance!





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United States
715 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2020  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oijogja to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm struggling to see this as something other than a damaged coin. I know you say the metal is raised, but hear me out for a sec. The scratched looking area that intersects the columns would almost certainly not be on the die, as scratches or even a botched polishing job would make the recess on the die deeper, i.e. the metal would be raised higher than normal on the struck coin. But see how the scratched column area is actually deeper than the normal height should be, not more raised? This suggests the coin itself was damaged to me. Even though there are raised areas in the overall look of the scratches, I'm thinking that's because some areas are just pressed down further than others, giving it the *relative* appearance of being raised. However, I could be wrong and just making up a story that makes sense to me. Could you double check that the scratches in the field are not in areas dipping lower than the normal level of the field around it, excluding the metal pushed up/away by those impressions?
everything else
Valued Member
United States
325 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2020  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CouchDiver1978 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I understand what you're saying. Maybe this view helps more. To me they are significantly higher than the normal devices.



Edited by CouchDiver1978
01/25/2020 7:14 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
715 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2020  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oijogja to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I'm not sure, but I see what you're saying now about how raised the metal is. What do you think happened? Do you think the die was somehow damaged very badly before striking this coin? It sure is curious. I hope someone else will jump in and offer an idea. Wish I could look at it in hand.
everything else
Valued Member
United States
325 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2020  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CouchDiver1978 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What I can see..

1. Devices were unaffected by event
2. New devices more raised than normal ones
3. New devices have relicts of another coin that looks scratched and shattered.

Keeping in mind that I probably don't know enough about this type of thing to make an educated guess...

Could be a lamination resulting from another coin which was struck on a badly flawed planchet containing too little zinc which got mauled up and was redeposited on this coin?...

The dye itself was normal and remained unaffected or reasonably unaffected with only a few left over Trail die looking relics left on it.
Edited by CouchDiver1978
01/26/2020 11:28 am
New Member
United States
35 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2020  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add montypython to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My opinion is that it's PMD. I disagree with your observation #1. Evident in "United States," is that the scratching is on the surface of the lettering. Also remember that gouging metal can result in the movement of the displaced amounts, creating the raised areas. I'm not sure that I see the relics of another coin that you mention in #3.

Going by Occam's Razor, which argues that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, rather than this being a complex mint error, it's more likely that this coin had an unfortunate encounter with an abrasive surface. The coin is clearly quite worn for a 2004, so it's almost definitely had a hard life as a circulating cent.
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United States
42345 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2020  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is this glue on the coin? It looks like it is floating over the tops of the devices?
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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