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1941 King George VI 1 Cent Doubled Die Obverse

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 1,100Next Topic  
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Canada
684 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  3:52 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hey everyone, Some of you may know by now that I have taken the last 2 months to focus mainly on the Canadian Small cents and I started writing a catalogue with all of my finds which will be available in the next few weeks, but I just couldn't wait to show you guys this one.

If you like Canadian small cent Doubled Dies this is one that I can safely say should be on everyones radar as I found this in circulation and I know there must be a gem in MS/BU out there somewhere! This is the second one (best condition) I have found, I have found 2 so far, through my research these I personally don't think anyone even knows about as I cannot find any info on 1941 King George small cent DDO's anywhere.

"GE" of "GEORGIVS"





"OR" of "GEORGIVS"




"GI" of "GEORGIVS"




"VS" of "GEORGIVS"





"VI" for "GEORGIVS VI"




"M" from "IMP"





ALL of the "E" letters of the Obverse look like this.





Close up of the "S" from "GEORGIVS"

Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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United States
50499 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This looks like Machine Doubling.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
684 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  7:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Im sorry but I have to strongly disagree, theres no way Machine Doubling can produce these splits and notches. I know my pictures are not very clear as I took them in somewhat of a hurry, but just looking at these images of the "S" it is clearly not MD. I'm not an expert but I've seen more MD than I would like to admit, which I'm sure many of you have as well.



Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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United States
50499 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The splits and notches are due to MD on the pointed serifs, I think.
Edited by Coinfrog
02/20/2020 7:31 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
684 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No MD here, what you are seeing is the spread of the second "S" behind the first one. Also note that most Canadian Small Cents actually have flatter devices compared to US Small Cents, for those who for some reason do not see it, here is a photo showing the Split Serifs.




Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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United States
2977 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  8:32 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MD wouldn't cause these splits, this is a doubled die.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1920 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
JohnWayne007 excellent work. take a close up picture of the denticles. post if you would not mind.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
684 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2020  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Close up of denticles.





Not sure if everyone can see it clear enough but "HP" is also doubled.



Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
788 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2020  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oldmike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks interesting I have lots of 41's I'll have to check, You know it would really be nice if you would include a photo of the full obverse and reverse when you post
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9255 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2020  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So is the S or the R the best marker for these? I have a whole tube of uncirculated 41s, so I am crossing my fingers when I go through it...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Canada
62 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2020  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BCTokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
through my research these I personally don't think anyone even knows about as I cannot find any info on 1941 King George small cent DDO's anywhere.


Have you consulted the catalogues "Major Coin Varieties" and "Minor Coin Varieties" by Hans Zoell? I only have the supplement to the third edition (1968) ov "Minor Coin Varieties" which only contains additions to the previous. I don't know what is contained in the others.

Jan
Pillar of the Community
Canada
684 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2020  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SPP-Ottawa, the best marker to go by would be the "S" in "GEORGIVS" as it almost always shows the splits and is usually fairly prominent, I have a second 1941 Doubled Die Obverse which only shows the splits in the "S" and faint splits in other places which I found when re-searching my 1941's to double check and make sure I didn't miss any more.

So if you find one going through your uncirculated 41's I would definitely like to see photos for sure!

The main 1941 DDO I found (which this post is about) also shows very prominent doubling on the "T" of "ET"


Here are the markers I go by when looking through 1941's from now on.





I looked through the Charlton catalogues, researched online and looked through the Hans Zoell numbers available from Coins and Canada but nothing came up for the 1941 other than minor Reverse varieties. I do not have access to Hans Catalogues but if anyone comes across any info for this that would be great but I do not have my hopes up as I searched virtually everywhere for even a shred of information regarding Doubled Dies on the obverse of the 1941 and came up with nothing (one of the many reasons I am doing a catalogue).


I will post full obverse and reverse photos today, along with my attempt of a "True View" image so everyone can see exactly what I see, It is a beautiful coin none the less.
Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1920 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2020  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
JohnWayne007 if you apply wexlers theory. you see what he has proved is that. the die that is involved with Machine Doubling. does not double one little piece or a few letter. it doubles the surface of the coin.so if one goes to the denticles. where you see doubling on letters or beads. see he tells you to check proximity markers if the whole surface is not. then it is caused by another source. second pressing or how the die was made. I have read his writing many many times. your coin doubling is caused by the makeup of the die that struck the coin. this is not Machine Doubling. okiecoiner has pushed this many many time on me. I am very glad that he did. because by studying wexler, I have learned I have an appreciation for his work.i thank you all for your helping me. if you want to read wexlers. read about proximity markers. the answers are right there. hope you all have a great one
Pillar of the Community
Canada
684 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2020  9:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the reply rocky, I am on the wexlers website often when looking at Lincoln cents and that is where I made myself familiar with what MD really looks like compared to a Doubled Die.


As requested here is a photo of the Obverse and Reverse of the coin.



My attempt at a true view will be coming soon with sharper images.
Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1920 Posts
 Posted 02/23/2020  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
john that is a incredible photo excellent. john I like how wexler explains the pivot point. when it comes to Machine Doubling. once you understand that. the rest easy have a good one.
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