Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Fake Belgian 5 Francs 1873 Coins?

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 508Next Topic  
Valued Member
292 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  11:41 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add sg93 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So these two coins' edges show clear signs of silvering to me. Strange copper-ish(looks like rust, but they aren't attracted to magnets) looking metal underneath what is clearly a superficial layer of silver. Any thoughts? They weigh 24.84g, nothing suspicious, everything looks normal too, even the ping test! Photos 1&3, 2&4 are of the 1st and 2nd coin respectively.



Valued Member
376 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Common coin right, worth faking ?
Valued Member
292 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sg93 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen fakes of the Prussian 5 Mark 1907, 1937 UK Crown, S.Africa 5 Shillings 1952, so it'd seem that nothing isn't worth faking, especially since people are likely to be less suspicious precisely because of their commonality
Pillar of the Community
Austria
537 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Check coinworldtv's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add coinworldtv to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

This is probably an old circulating forgery, not something ment to fool a collector.

Back then it was probably worth faking it as the silver was still worth something.

Pillar of the Community
United States
562 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  4:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Atlas642 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to see head on photos of the obverse and reverse to judge authenticity, but I don't believe that discoloration along the edges is silvering over base metal. It looks like environmental damage / staining; I've seen similar colored staining on authentic silver coins before. Note that there's silver showing on the raised letters of the edge; for silvering, I'd expect to see the opposite where wear exposes base metal on the letters and original silvering still shows along the flat surfaces of the edge.
Valued Member
Poland
77 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  5:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed with @Atlas642 - I am a prolific collector of pre-Euro Belgian coinage (including circulating counterfeits), and this is a genuine coin that has been stored in a ' Whitman' style album which caused discoloration on the edges. There are contemporary counterfeits of these 5 Franc coins (I have around 40 examples of different types), but this is not one of them. Circulated, yes - filed to retrieve silver shavings, yes, but a fake, no. Hope this helps :)
Valued Member
292 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sg93 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm quite sure it isn't toning, because in the hand it really appears that the surface of the silver just around the areas of the supposed toning rises above. As if a very thick layer of paint had been chipped off of a metal handrail and the metal underneath shows.

Notice the soil/rust specks in the first picture. But unlike what I see on the edge, these specks look on the surface rather than under. Also, I can't help noticing that horribly weak strike/strong wear on the edge lettering of one of the two coins, when hardly the same degree of wear appears on both sides.

On a side note, any recommendations for a usb microscope? Taking macro pictures with my phone is a horrible experience




Edited by sg93
06/03/2020 8:56 pm
Valued Member
292 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sg93 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Which Whitman album by the way? The PVC types?
Valued Member
Poland
77 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2020  02:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was referring to the cardboard folders. It is possible that there are deposits of dirt, etc which have built up over the years, and as I mentioned, the edges of this coin have been damaged through filing, resulting in the 'weak' appearance of the letters. Again, this is a damaged coin, but I see no indication that it is a counterfeit.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
6993 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2020  04:37 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I see no indication that it is a counterfeit.


When I've dug up coins with my metal detector, I find the edge is the most difficult part to clean. If I dig up something like a heavily tarnished 20p or 50p coin, I'll try to get it into respectable condition by cleaning the obverse and reverse, but leave the edge as it is. If this coin suffered environmental damage at some stage and then re-entered circulation, it's likely that the traces of the discoloration remained on the edge.
Valued Member
292 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2020  07:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sg93 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, so what sort of chemical reaction could have resulted in this particular type of discoloration? I'm only familiar with the usual grey-to-dark grey type, if not some iridescent or even gold toning, but never this kind, if it isn't actually soil.


Thanks for the insight, never having cleaned any coins, not even for experiment, I wouldn't have thought about that.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
17063 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2020  08:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see no reason why the 1873 Belgian 5 francs should be counterfeited. They are common.

If everything checks out - end of story.

There are far more tempting European silver crown targets out there for the fakers than this type.
Valued Member
292 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2020  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sg93 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I've just had them tested, they are of 90% silver. But anyway I have seen fakes of the common Prussian one I mentioned a few replies up, so I wouldn't be too confident, although those fakes were too obvious anyway.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
3475 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2020  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ok, so what sort of chemical reaction could have resulted in this particular type of discoloration?


Sulfur containing compounds are generally considered to be the culprit.
Valued Member
Poland
77 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2020  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And with that, I think that we can bury this truly well and dead horse.
Valued Member
292 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2020  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sg93 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
alright, thanks all for your observations.
  Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 508Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.88 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05