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"Basement Grader" Slabbed 1 Poltinnik 1925 MS63 - Worth Submitting To NGC?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 382Next Topic  
New Member
Lithuania
14 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  08:17 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ezhik_Lt to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello everyone.

Being a collector from Europe I'm not too much into grading. I've been collecting raw coins mostly but sometimes I also grab something slabbed if it does not affect the price of the coins itself.

I'm adding some pictures of the coin I got recently for a fair price from auction. Guess that grading provided by only locally recognized Russian grader HHP (it's National Numismatic Registry in Russian) scared away some fellow collectors.

I reviewed my purchase carefully when got in hands and frankly - I somewhat disagree with grade. Well, I'm Lithuanian and we normally disagree - it's a part of national identity :) but what I see here : it's really bright and lustrous but "hairlines" one could notice on a reverse looks suspicious to me.
So my question is - could it be actually a MS coin?

Maybe I'm wrong and the "hairlines" I see are actually signs of heavily worn die used to mint the coin?



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United States
4920 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  08:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Maybe I'm wrong and the "hairlines" I see are actually signs of heavily worn die used to mint the coin?

Worn dies do not make a coin less than mint state.
All they do is lower the grade.
It's random hairlines that will cause a coin to the graded less than MS.

I can't tell if it's a coin or a token.
I see a date but no face value.
But that still wouldn't stop it from being authenticated and graded.
BUT
Is it worth the expense of submitting it to a TPG?
The cost would be in the area of US$100-150.
Does it have enough collector's value?
Describe it as if there were no picture.
Picture it as if there were no description.
New Member
Lithuania
14 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  08:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ezhik_Lt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see the point - so it's less than MS due to hairlines.

It's a coin - they used to write the denomination as text on silver coins. "Odin Poltinnik" actually means 1 Half Rouble coin, equal to 50 kopecks.

Well it has some value though it's a common coin without value adding variations. Should be around $50- 60 in mint state.
I paid much less.
Costs of slabbing would be up to $30 with NGC since we normally submit coins via local dealer who makes bulk submission - 100+ low end coins per time. Also mind VAT return option - when submitting coins to Paris office we are still billed by US guys without taxes.

Anyway there is no logical reason to slab is, I would get more by selling it as is. Even more, AU grade would decrease the value, I guess.


Edited by Ezhik_Lt
09/15/2020 08:51 am
New Member
Lithuania
14 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ezhik_Lt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I checked also grader's homepage to verify the certification.
Looks like the same coin they graded almost a year ago.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3729 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Light circulation marks and it looks like it was "dipped".
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United States
4713 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  1:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO, it's a circulated coin (likely AU) that has been harshly cleaned. I would not send it into NGC for grading.

Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
New Member
Lithuania
14 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ezhik_Lt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all!
Yes, I agree it might be dipped but at least it didn't destroy the luster.

As to hairlines or whatever we should call this tiny chaotic scratches all over the field- good to get a proof of my opinion.

Do you think it should be treated as AU, something close to 58? Or should we grade it as "details"? I don't ask how it got MS63, most probably grader took a look only at obverse which is more or less okay.



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United States
4713 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Based on your images, I would have to call it a "Details - Improperly Cleaned" coin.

Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
New Member
Lithuania
14 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ezhik_Lt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks!
Valued Member
United States
325 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Check Lancek's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Lancek to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've got one of these. Although not in as good of shape as yours. Reverse looks great but the obverse looks cleaned. I personally wouldn't spend any more money getting it graded again.
New Member
Lithuania
14 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2020  03:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ezhik_Lt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Lancek. I would also avoid this coin if the price would be any closer to grade written.
Auction handler posted more or less proper photos and was fair enough to attribute it as "About Uncirculated".
Since I paid quite a bargain I'm not disappointed at all but still had an idea that maybe AU58 from NGC would be an option.
Coin isn't badly worn, I must admit :)
Right know I'm more eager to keep it to replace mine 1925 PL in VF and maybe sell it later back to Russia.
New Member
Lithuania
14 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2020  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ezhik_Lt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Getting back to hairlines visible around blacksmith head - I was checking sold items via ebay recently, mostly to pick the right price for my previous coin and found some coins graded by respectful TPGs, like PCGS.
This one was graded MS63 and I still see a lot of hairlines. Frankly my obverse - I would treat as obverse the side with coat of arms and denomination- looks less damaged. Was the PCGS right in this case? I like the toning and eye appeal of PCGS coin but I'm confused with overall grade


New Member
United States
36 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2020  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doges to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lines you see in the PCGS coin, I'm pretty sure, are die polish lines rather than actual cleaning. Die polish lined are raised, unlike those found as a result of cleaning. It can be hard to tell from photographs sometimes.
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