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Help Identify This Coin

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 560Next Topic  
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Portugal
5 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  05:35 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add cascais to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi, I found this coin in my garden. (I live in Portugal.) It is quite worn on one side and the other side has 4 "boxes", two of those boxes have a cross. Diameter app. 2cms

Please help in identifying it
Thank you
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United States
3866 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  08:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This design is called a Jerusalem cross, and it is found on some silver Portuguese coins of the 17th to 19th centuries, but I cannot find one that matches your coin (which looks like copper?)
New Member
Portugal
5 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  08:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cascais to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would guess it's bronze or copper. Appears to be hammered as opposed to mold/minted (I'm a newbie so I hope those are the right terms:)!) as it has a very irregular shape. It is quite thin. After gently washing, with water only, there appears to be a different cross in one of the other boxes.

Living close to the shore near many Roman, Moorish and Templar ruins, I'm not even certain it is a Portuguese coin...

But thank you so much! The Jerusalem cross identification gives me a place to start.
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United States
17446 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  11:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@cas, first welcome to CCF. Second, now that you can see some detail on the other side, can you please add a pic to this thread? It might help us with an identification. Thx. Finally, for now at least, you should hold off on any further cleaning.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

New Member
Portugal
5 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cascais to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi and thanks for answering. The reverse side of the coin is still quite illegible and worn. Basically that one side in picture is all I have.
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United States
3866 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I forgot to say ...


Here is something in bronze with the Jerusalem cross, hammered coinage, correct diameter. I am not sure it is a match.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces71406.html
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United States
1384 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  3:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to see the other side even if it is mostly blank, but I think with the cross being that thick Naples or Sicily is more likely than Cyprus. Under Felipe IV of Spain.

There is a Nice example of one I think is similar here:http://www.rhinocoins.com/ITALY/rna...FILIP42.HTML
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United States
17446 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  4:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In addition to the Jerusalem cross, it looks like a crescent and star in the inscription. Or is that an old counterstamp maybe?

Added: can you please add the weight of this coin? Thx.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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United States
4441 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see a lot of close ones in my references. What I do see immediately is the large cross separating the 4 smaller crosses is not angled but block. The coins I just reviewed from 1700 - 1900 has a large cross that is angled on the ends.


Quote:
Or is that an old counterstamp maybe?


Good question. I think we will certainly have much better idea if it is or not once we get a shot of the other side of the coin.
And now the commander in chief of the house is requiring my assistance. So good luck gents.
Member: ANA and NGC
My Want list: http://goccf.com/t/188411
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United States
5268 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  7:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kingdom of Naples, I would think.
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United States
4441 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  9:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kingdom of Naples

3 Cavalli - Felipe II
1568-1599
Looks very similar to this coin.
Member: ANA and NGC
My Want list: http://goccf.com/t/188411
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91109 Posts
New Member
Portugal
5 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  03:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cascais to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so much! All of you are so knowledgeable! Here is a picture of the reverse side of the coin. Possibly you can see something I do not. It is very blurry because there was very little that the camera could actually focus upon.

Obviously if Spanish, there are a great deal of possible connections seeing as we live in a coastal town. Naples a bit harder to connect, but then again it only adds to the mystery.

I will weigh the coin later today (need to borrow a friend's small scale since obviously the bathroom scale won't work!)


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United States
3866 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  09:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice job @scopru!


Quote:
it looks like a crescent and star in the inscription

I had guessed that might be a cross and the first letters of a legend. Now that scopru has nailed it, we see the reverse legend is IN HOC SIGNO VINCES, so this is probably + I ....
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces26248.html
New Member
Portugal
5 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cascais to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks you, everyone! I never would have found this as the main cross and 4 smaller crosses are so off center on mine. Now the mystery of how it appeared in Cascais Portugal!

Many many Thanks!
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United States
4441 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Credit goes to Gincoin and BobL for their posts both pointing to Naples. I just took those "clues" and went a little deeper to something that looks like this coin. Team effort all around.
Member: ANA and NGC
My Want list: http://goccf.com/t/188411
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