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1883 O Morgan - Need Help Identifying The VAM

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 368Next Topic  
Valued Member
United States
53 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2020  02:38 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add fruitofmycoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I am completely new to identifying VAM's and have been looking at pictures of different VAM's for longer than I would like to admit. Can someone please help me out?

There may be an O/O but I can't be sure because there is a lot going on in the middle of that O.

Some identifiers:

Obverse:

1. There is a die crack that starts to the left of the B and goes well after the S in PLURIBUS.

2. In the date, the second 8 is punched higher and the 3 is slightly lower.

Reverse:

1. On the second cluster of leaves on the left side, the bottom two leaves are noticeably thinner from excessive die polishing, the upper leaf on the third cluster is disconnected, as is the rightmost leaf on the fourth cluster.

2. The O mintmark appears to be tilted slightly to the left.

Hope this helps. I look forward to your responses.

Thank you,


Bedrock of the Community
United States
36135 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2020  05:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
Valued Member
United States
53 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2020  05:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fruitofmycoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah that would be the site that I've been pouring over. Or was that meant to be a joke?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
36135 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2020  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No joke,that is the VAM site I recommend to members. I thought a link would make it easier for members to take a look and tell you what they thought. Congrats on 50 post milestone...contest time?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
Valued Member
United States
53 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2020  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fruitofmycoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah! Gotcha. Whats the contest?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
36135 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2020  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some members hold a contest to celebrate a milestone, like 50 posts or 100 posts or whatever. Check out the contest section for ideas.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
Pillar of the Community
United States
9401 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2020  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I went through the mm left listings and didn't have anything seem like a match. The mint mark probably isn't an O/O as there's only one listing that's slightly left and yours is not that VAM.
All of the observations that you listed are fairly common throughout the 83-O series except the die crack that could have occurred anywhere in the life of the die and may not be on the discovery coin and the listing images. I would closely examine the date for any doubling, the ear for doubling and even the eagle's wing/ neck gap on the viewer's right for any die file lines. One of the guys that did the die study for this date has quite a collection of wing/ neck gap images.
1883-O can be a tough nut to crack sometimes as pups can be very minute.

There is also another guy that has a nice web site for 83-O that I have saved on my laptop. I'll post the link when I'm on it.
edit to add - http://www.silverdye.us/wiki/Main/S...de83O#Center
1883-O Nut
Edited by dave700x
09/29/2020 9:27 pm
Valued Member
United States
53 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2020  05:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fruitofmycoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the help dave700x.

I examined the ear and did not see any doubling. I did, however, see doubling on the bottom loop of the 3 and, what I am guessing is die file lines, between the eagles neck and wing (on the viewer's right). This goes on all the way down the eagle's wing and body. I also noticed the same type of marks between the eagle's legs. I will post pictures and hope that this helps.


https://ibb.co/6XRzF3Q][/url]
https://ibb.co/kyV7Lsb][/url]
Valued Member
United States
79 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2020  07:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SensibleSal66 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but what does the VAM matter ? I'm new to these VAM's and error coin collecting in general. Is one valued more than another (same date/ mint mark ) ?
Please help me understand . Thanks
Remember the old days ?

Valued Member
United States
53 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2020  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fruitofmycoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, with the 1883 O as an example, the right die pairing, or VAM, could mean you have a branch mint proof. Which the last one sold for over $270,000. There are other physical characteristics that determine a branch mint proof and I certainly don't have one. But this is just an example.
Pillar of the Community
United States
9401 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2020  08:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I went through all the mint mark left listings and did not find a match to the wing gap and upper tail feather die file lines. This may be another of the "multiple die pairs exist" examples. However, I would think that the guys on VAMworld that have studied the 83-O series have seen an example of this die pair and if you want to pursue it further I would suggest that you post these images on the VAMworld discussion forum.
Last year I had an 83-O that had me stumped so I posted it on the VW forum and both Ray Sanchez and Loren Albert had come across examples and Loren has an example on his site listed as VNA-11. A lot of minor details but not enough to warrant a new listing so I do have a VAM-1
I would add one more thing to check, see if your coin has any over-lapping reeding.
1883-O Nut
Edited by dave700x
10/03/2020 08:46 am
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