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1804 Double Struck Draped Bust Half Cent

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 303Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
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822 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2020  5:01 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add DoctorBurnzy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I belong to another forum dedicated to Half Cents and I had a conversation earlier today about this coin with one of the knowledgeable moderators on the subject. I wanted to know why there wouldn't be a doubling on my coin on "LIBERTY" or on the reverse. Here's how the conversation went.

Me: Do you think this is a real double struck? and if so can you explain how the strike process works as to why there is no doubling on the reverse or on the word LIBERTY but only just on the obverse face?

Him: Yes, it is a real double strike. The shallower portion of the obverse often will get "erased" when the 2nd strike occurs. That's why only the face is doubled. This is not unusual at all, I have many examples just like this one. The reverse gets struck into a blank planchet flattening the reverse somewhat. This is what we call a brockage maker, because the blank that it struck becomes a brockage. Hopefully this all makes sense. If you own this, you should share it with the Half Cents Facebook group. Mint errors are so much fun. I love them.

Me: So the reverse is struck at a different time than the obverse then?

Him: No. A blank planchet got fed into the press at the same time. So the first strike happened, then that coin failed to eject and got caught in the press, a 2nd planchet was inserted and that's when the 2nd strike happened. This is why only the obverse shows doubling. The reverse was sitting on top of a blank planchet'. It hit the blank planchet squashing the reverse details somewhat.

Me: so there's another planchet with just a reverse on it.

Him: Yes! It would have created a reverse full brockage.

Me: that makes sense ...I can explain it now to someone else lol.

Him: Yeah, they are a bit of a puzzle sometimes. you just have to work it out in your mind. It's really just simple physics in the end. Here's one that I have that is the twin to yours.

Edited by DoctorBurnzy
10/17/2020 5:03 pm
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United States
51171 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2020  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for that. Bit hard to follow, but thank you.
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United States
823 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2020  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are photos of an 1804 that didn't have the blank planchet preventing the second strike on the reverse, so it is double struck on both sides. It has about 45 degree rotation between strikes.




Pillar of the Community
United States
822 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2020  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DoctorBurnzy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope it at the very least it describes that if the coin once struck in the press gets stuck and then unstuck finding itself laying on the next planchet that the next strike would not have a double strike on the reverse in this case because the brokage (the other planchet) was the reverse struck in the 2nd strike and not the original reverse of this coin. The original coin was only compressed a bit during the 2nd strike on a flat planchet and thus one does not have to see a doubling of the reverse in the double strike. I remember someone questioning the authenticity of the 1806 draped bust half post from GrapeCollects yesterday because there was no doubling of the reverse in the strike. It got me thinking a bit and I wanted to know why some of the double struck draped bust Half Cents I've seen do not have a doubling on the reverse as well. If you are reading this GrapeCollects. I didn't want to hijack your post with pictures of my coin. Also, I believe the coin in your post was tooled as well.
Edited by DoctorBurnzy
10/17/2020 8:27 pm
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 Posted 10/17/2020  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DoctorBurnzy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a nice one Phil310 with a crosslet 4 with stems. You can clearly see the remnants of the "I" in UNITED situated between UNITED and STATES.
Edited by DoctorBurnzy
10/17/2020 8:55 pm
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United States
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 Posted 10/17/2020  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that is the second T of STATES between the D and S. I got cross-eyed trying to figure out what was showing from the first strike. It took me a while.
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 Posted 10/17/2020  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting thread, thanks for posting. I did question the first one. What was stated about the lower relief devices (date and Liberty) disappearing does make sense. Just seems to me like there would also be evidence at mid relief points on the portrait, besides what is clearly visible eg. hair and bust. I'm guessing that just comes down to how the metal flows through the die when struck .

That, in combination with the location of the abrasion marks were suspect.

It has me intrigued. Shame about the harsh cleaning, otherwise a nice example.
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