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Advice - 1758 Shilling - Genuine Or Reproduction?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 651Next Topic  
New Member

Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2020  7:09 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Telo27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi there!

New member to the group. Having a bit of a panic moment as I purchased this shilling and I later questioned the lustre and possible details of the coin.

I typically only buy English coins as certified or a high feedback seller but I felt the shilling was too pretty to pass up. I paid a decent dollar for it so looking for suggestions on wether you think it's genuine and are there any known 1758 forged shillings?

All comments are welcome and encouraged!

Thanks.

Pillar of the Community
Canada
3827 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2020  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
is the weight correct? that is the starting point.
Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1642 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2020  9:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If its real, it's a stunner and probably worth a lot of dough.

However it could be fake, so we need all the following please.

1. Weight in grams
2. Size in mm
3. Is it magnetic
4. Where brought from and country of the seller
5. Price paid

Red flags

1. The coin should be at least 25mm in size and not more than 27mm
2. Weight should be around 6 grams
3. Should NOT be magnetic
4. If its an ebay seller from China or India or any other country like that = bad
5. Anything less than $100 be concerned.
Loving Halfcrowns. British and Commonwealth coins 1750 - 1950 and anything Kiwi.
If it's round, shiny and silvery I will love it.
New Member
Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2020  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Telo27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the comments guys.

I don't have the coin yet, it's in the post now.

I will be sure to check magnetic, size, and weight upon arrival.

The seller is in the US and I paid 150 USD with 20 USD shipping which I thought was a fair price for the coin.

It's a beautiful coin but really the lustre is what has me concerned.

When I receive the coin I will check all the other things out.

I have been searching the internet for any kind of evidence of an existing 1758 but have not found any.

You would think if someone were to make a fake that they would choose a more valueable date as 1758 has the lowest CV.

Thank you very much for the comments!
Valued Member
Poland
229 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2020  03:30 am  Show Profile   Check norantyki's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, sorry to say, but this is definitely a reproduction / fake. Many of the details are mushy / weak, and there is a 'pitted' appearance typical of casting / being struck with a cast transfer die. The toning / patina is wrong. Hopefully you can return it soon as for a refund.

Just as an FYI Shillings in this grade of this period will have razor-sharp strikes, regular surfaces, and are generally found gunmetal toned. A dipped example would have likely started to tone from the edges (where they would have been handled in a cabinet situation, and also would likely not share the same patination on the obverse and reverse (again, due to lying in a mahogany cabinet on felt).
Edited by norantyki
10/21/2020 03:31 am
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United States
92320 Posts
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United States
9086 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2020  10:09 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hard to argue with Norantyki's analysis. It looks like someone sandblasted the poor King with all of those pits.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC
Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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United States
3988 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2020  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
https://www.coinarchives.com/cfcb62...age00454.jpg

Compare. Don't feel bad ... pretty good fake.
New Member
Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2020  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Telo27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all your input. My next question, returning the item on eBay, should I ask the seller for a refund or should I tell ebay about it right away? I feel like I require some proof but I've read that you should be able to return it without having to send it for validation through certification company. It feels wrong to return a fake coin knowing it might be sold as another fake again. If anyone has an advice on how I should proceed with getting a refund that would be great.

Thanks again for your support on this!
Pillar of the Community
Australia
873 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2020  03:48 am  Show Profile   Check ryurazu's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ryurazu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tad blurry on the images

I don't have an example of this coin yet, however I will give you my opinion.

Usually hammered fakes are often poor reproduction, as Norantyki's has put it the tone of this coin looks very wrong and a coin of this age should have a much deeper colouring, it is very unlikely to have a blazing toning. My best guess is this is actually a cleaned coin and thats why the toning look only like a few decades old on this coin, with much of the details being that is might have been worn, like others have said this is also a red flag as details are mushy which is not great (mushy details often due to fake die transfers) .
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Australia
873 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2020  03:52 am  Show Profile   Check ryurazu's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ryurazu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to get refund they will try to pass it off to your payment system, don't let that deter you as you should be protect by their buyers protection (not 100% on their recent policy changes).
Valued Member
United Kingdom
488 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2020  04:03 am  Show Profile   Check PaddyB's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would say it is always best to go for the seller refund first. If he is in any way a reputable dealer, he will refund without quibble. The coin is close enough to being OK to fool a lot of people, so he may have made a genuine mistake. He may even disagree with your assessment, but should still refund if you are not happy with it. Give him the chance to resolve the issue. You can always point him to this thread to confirm your opinion.
Only start the formal process if that does not work. No point creating aggro if there is a peaceable way of resolving the problem.
Despite the horror stories, the vast majority of Ebay sellers are doing their best to trade honestly. The few that are downright crooked just make life even more difficult for the rest.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
409 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2020  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zookeeperz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
100% jeckyl sadly. George shilling profile he has what you might call a pelican throat that looks like a baggy excess of skin . The coin above does not missing collar design and a whole host of font errors. But i'll give them 8/10 for effort a very convincing fake . Would fool most new collectors
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New Zealand
1642 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2020  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Boy was I fooled, I honestly thought it may be real, until you guys clearly saw it was a fake.

Ryurazu - just one thing, 1758 dated coins are not hammered, but milled meaning they were made by a screw press, hence they are quite round and have edges, but are not as well made as Machine made coins.

Milled coins were standard between 1663 and 1810 in the UK, with the last hammered coins made in the 1660s and first machine made ones being Cartwheels in 1797.
Loving Halfcrowns. British and Commonwealth coins 1750 - 1950 and anything Kiwi.
If it's round, shiny and silvery I will love it.
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