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Problem Listing—1888 O Morgan, Cameo DMPL

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 566Next Topic  
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 Posted 10/24/2020  12:44 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
The experts here already know this but for any newbies out there, it always pays to actually check a coin's certification with the TPG.

This coin looks beautiful (With the exception of that spot on her forehead—can't tell if it's damage or something with the lighting) , but it bothered me that the dealer didn't Include a picture of the coin in its slab with the bar code or grader's number. So I checked the certification number, and it's not the same coin.

I'm going to contact the seller, who has really good ratings on eBay, on the assumption there was an error somewhere along the line, but I wanted to show why it's a good idea, always, to check.




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 Posted 10/24/2020  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let us know what happens!
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 Posted 10/24/2020  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Will do, Coinfrog!

Just curious to further my education—what do you think about the coin they picture on the ebay page? I actually did a search for DMPL Cameo Morgans and a surprising number came up. Is there a way to phony up a DMPL Cameo coin?
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 Posted 10/24/2020  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is there a way to phony up a DMPL Cameo coin?


Takes 30s with photoshop. There are a few infamous bad actors who literally make their livelihoods off of scamming people with these.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
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 Posted 10/24/2020  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is there a way to phony up a DMPL Cameo coin?


I've heard it can be done using some type of laser and/or chemical etching.

I remember seeing a Barber half dollar 15 or 20 years ago that fooled a lot of supposedly very smart people. It was a gorgeous coin that had been played with by a coin doctor. It didn't get caught until it went to TPG.

Another coin doctor back in the 1990's was good at artificial frost and artificial toning. He could take PL coins and paint frost on Ms Liberty, the eagle and the lettering and make the nicks, scrapes and bag marks disappear. At one time he had show cases full of colorful and artificial frost coins at coin shows. I think he finally died.

Bottom line ..... Be very suspicious of any unslabbed coin that looks too good to be true!
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 Posted 10/24/2020  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Bottom line ..... Be very suspicious of any unslabbed coin that looks too good to be true!


Amen that! I don't trust my own eye enough to buy expensive unslabbed coins.
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 Posted 10/24/2020  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also, on eBay, is it fair that it bothers me if a listing only has two photos, as this one does? I really want to see shots of the coin, straight-on, with plain lighting.

I'm also bothered even with slabbed coins if the only photos on the listing are those color-enhanced images that TPG's sometimes create to show off toning. If the coin is legitimately graded, I'd probably still be comfortable making the buy if I wanted the coin, but I really want to see some straight-on shots of the coin in plain lighting.

AND I'm not thrilled if the only photos all have glare from lighting that obscures parts of the coin. I get that sometimes the photographer will angle the coin against the lighting to show something like toning or a really glossy field, but without a good image of the full coin, I always wonder if there's something I'm not supposed to see.
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 Posted 10/24/2020  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some years back someone tested this water (not sure what seller but there are several) and the coin they received was a far cry from the seller's images.
1883-O Nut
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 Posted 10/26/2020  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hunter611 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting topic. Amazing what some folks will do.
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 Posted 10/27/2020  12:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Update: Still no word from the vendor and the listing remains unchanged. I looked at options for reporting the problem to ebay but they want you to select descriptions of the problem from a list, and the only option that covers inaccurate descriptions uses the word "fraudulent." Since there is a chance this was an honest error (tho I'm bothered that they don't include pics of the whole coin in its slab) I don't like accusing a seller that has great buyer ratings of fraud without giving them every chance to fix the problem. OTOH, the longer this goes without correction the greater the chance someone will buy the coin and possibly end up with the 1896 rather than the coin that's pictured. So I contacted them again. If it's still incorrect tomorrow, I'll report it.
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 Posted 10/27/2020  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Nerd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This just goes to show that buying from eBay is just about the riskiest thing a collector can do. You can't even trust that slabs are real anymore! The Chinese counterfeiting rings are making a killing off of fooling collectors like us.
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 Posted 10/27/2020  12:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Nerd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That Morgan dollar looks a bit too reflective. Maybe I'm wrong but it looks a little strange to me.
Edited by Morgan Nerd
10/27/2020 12:57 pm
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 Posted 10/27/2020  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, Morgan Nerd. I'm hoping that what happened is just that down in the description section they entered data for another coin they were selling by accident. That's why I'm giving them every chance to fix it before I report it.

I agree that this Morgan looks pretty unusual—that's what caught my eye and why I checked the certification. I've seen some really mirrored PL and DMPL coins (I have a Couple). And I think some dealers have started to shoot these with a black light or something like it to make the cameos blaze against the mirrored fields. It's a cool look, and can help show off really problem-free fields, but it is a trick of the lighting. Here's a similar photo—this one for a coin that checks out with PGCS.

Someone please weigh in if I'm mistaken about any of this.
Edited by twslisa
10/27/2020 6:19 pm
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 Posted 10/27/2020  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find you need to take the "Item specifics" section on ebay with a grain of salt. Very often when someone is listing several items they don't get that section updated correctly for each of them leaving incorrect information there. If you check their other sales (current and previous) you may find that 1896 they list in that "item specifics" section.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 10/28/2020  11:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Conder101. That's what I am thinking happened here—good faith error. That said, I've sent them two messages at this point, the last one over 24 hours ago and the first one a few days ago. They've had time to fix the problem and haven't, so I'm about to report the problem to eBay. The listing should be taken down until it can be corrected.
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 Posted 10/28/2020  2:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just chatted with someone at ebay. Seems someone else had already reported it, and they're already taking action. I wonder why they haven't removed the listing while they do whatever they're doing.
Edited by twslisa
10/28/2020 2:24 pm
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