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1887 "Masterpiece" Morgan Dollar Sells For Insane Figure

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7822 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2020  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That seriously fugly toning... this coin deserves a quick dip to bring it back to beautiful.


I will personally clip your wings birdman
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
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Australia
17604 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2020  6:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful rainbow toning is extremely delicate, and as thus,
should be stored in a very stable environment, such as a screw sealed acrylic capsule.
IMHO, not even a third party slab is atmospherically secure enough for a $32,000 rainbow toned Morgan.

The premium of more than $30,000 plus is a heck of a lot to pay for rainbow toning, and then only on one side.

"Insanity" is an appropriate descriptive in this case.
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 Posted 10/26/2020  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm also in the group that finds this a bit "gaudy" if you will, the price tag amplifies that a bit as well. I do have a number of toned coins , and don't mind a bit of peripheral toning. But to each their own!

What frustrates me is they straight grade this one, meanwhile, have called a number of very intense album toned coins of mine "Questionable". There's no consistency.
Edited by Ty2020b
10/26/2020 8:59 pm
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 Posted 10/26/2020  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Probably just another miracle made in a frying pan. Even if not, it's freakish. It didn't look like this when it left the mint. It would have gone in the melting pot.

Why these technicolor oddities sell for more than other "environmental damage" coins is beyond me.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
10/26/2020 7:25 pm
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 Posted 10/26/2020  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There's no consistency.


That is true. NGC is way worse though. Nothing with color ever goes to them now.


Quote:
Why these technicolor oddities sell for more than other "environmental damage" coins is beyond me


People like them because they're unique and colorful. Blast white is nice, but gets bland. It's a way to incorporate variety into a collection.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
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2154 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2020  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grape, 40 years ago you couldn't sell a Morgan unless it was a BLAST WHITE STUNNER!

Don't imagine that they stayed that way from the Mint.

Same thing with rainbow toning. These coins have no pedigree. They're like Jessica Rabbit:

"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way."
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
10/26/2020 8:09 pm
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 Posted 10/26/2020  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That is true. NGC is way worse though. Nothing with color ever goes to them now.


Funny you say that, all in all I've had more toners straight grade by NGC. Proof there's no consistency I guess.
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 Posted 10/26/2020  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Grape, 40 years ago you couldn't sell a Morgan unless it was a BLAST WHITE STUNNER!


Yeah, and a lot changes in 40 years. New markets, new tastes. My generation (I'm 18) prefers more vibrant things in life, be it a byproduct of our love for technology, and as such they're a hit with us. With the, and I'm sorry, older folks on here and in the hobby they collect how they like which is by the standards of back when they were young or getting into it.


Quote:
These coins have no pedigree. They're like Jessica Rabbit


Actually a lot of the monster toners do have pedigree. Even then you can tell AT from NT if you know what you're doing. Blast white collectors prize original surfaces right? Therefor you should be equally indifferent to toned coins.


Quote:
Don't imagine that they stayed that way from the Mint.


Well no duh.

Actually I've been meaning to make a point for a while and because this has kinda turned into a toning debate, screw it, I will.

The people who constantly talk about why all toning is bad and dip all of it off are the biggest grumps in the hobby. Sorry. I'm not gonna put it any other way. You are basically saying that everyone who doesn't collect the same way you are is doing it wrong, and guess what, I'm going to collect how I want, and you can collect how you want. I personally like blast coins, and like toned coins. I just feel blast gets bland.

I mean, like, what annoys me the most is that people would unironically dip a coin like this. If you don't like it, don't buy it, but don't ruin for someone else either. You're the equivalent of a child going "Well if I don't want it then nobody else can" every time you go well that's nice but toning bad. Like, seriously the people who do that are genuinely the most annoying in the hobby.

TLDR; don't tell people how to collect. If you try to ruin it for others you're kind of a... well you get it.

If this offended you, you're the target audience.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
Edited by GrapeCollects
10/26/2020 8:54 pm
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 Posted 10/26/2020  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I would have seen this coin on e-Bay my inexperience with Morgan dollars would have said it's AT .
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Australia
17604 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2020  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is possible to artificially reproduce the beautiful rainbow toning that we see here.
One of the reasons why I prefer full luster blast white - that cannot be reproduced.
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 Posted 10/26/2020  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yeah, and a lot changes in 40 years. New markets, new tastes. My generation (I'm 18) prefers more vibrant things in life, be it a byproduct of our love for technology, and as such they're a hit with us. With the, and I'm sorry, older folks on here and in the hobby they collect how they like which is by the standards of back when they were young or getting into it.


@GrapeCollects, My Gen Z customers have also rediscovered the beauty of SPL/PL/DMPL Morgans. Your generation definitely has an appreciation for aesthetics. IMHO, your generation also has less obsession with resale value, and more of a heart for collecting for collecting's sake. Back in the land before COVID, when we had three-dimensional encounters with living, breathing people and coin shows, I particularly enjoyed the conversations my wife and I had with your generation.
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 Posted 10/26/2020  9:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

It is possible to artificially reproduce the beautiful rainbow toning that we see here.
One of the reasons why I prefer full luster blast white - that cannot be reproduced.


On another thread we were talking about the fact that people can make fake cameos as well.

Toning may not have come out of the mint, but NATURAL toning came out of the coin's interaction with its environment, and in fact there are ways to tell real toning from fake (there are some good articles on the topic, but I prefer to trust the equipment used at TPG's to make the assessment). Toning makes a coin one-of-a-kind, unlike any other. Some coins tone in a way that looks really pretty. Others generally do not. It's hard to find some early coins in anything like fresh-minted condition, just having been in the oxygen for centuries has turned most of them kind of dull and blah. If a coin is changed by nature in a way that makes it nice to look at I'm all for it. I absolutely love that fresh-from-the-mint look as well. To each his own.
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 Posted 10/26/2020  10:09 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
One of the reasons why I prefer full luster blast white - that cannot be reproduced.


A 1000% valid reason.


Quote:
rediscovered the beauty of SPL/PL/DMPL Morgans


I'm one of them. The problem is if I get into them I won't be able to afford the rest of my collection


Quote:
Your generation definitely has an appreciation for aesthetics. IMHO, your generation also has less obsession with resale value, and more of a heart for collecting for collecting's sake. Back in the land before COVID, when we had three-dimensional encounters with living, breathing people and coin shows, I particularly enjoyed the conversations my wife and I had with your generation


I think that has something to do with today's environment. My generation is by far the most materialistic, no arguing that, and nobody is concerned with reselling what we have because we wouldn't have bought it in the first place if we didn't like it. We'll be the most cutthroat registry collectors in the future

I'll also add that some coins are extremely scarce with attractive toning. Off the top of my head the SLQ, WLHD, and Peace dollar jump to mind. All are extremely scarce with colorful toning which makes them a conditional rarity of their own.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
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395 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2020  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JasonKflo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
toning is questionable to me , price crazy . Hopefully the seller bought some lotto tickets after that.
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 Posted 10/26/2020  10:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grape, here's my only toner (other than a few soot black ones).



It was struck on the proof dies, which is my main interest. IMO that's natural gold tone. Peace dollars show that tone fairly often.

Natural toners are usually not as vivid as that rainbow Morgan. Hence the skepticism. My point about "blast white" was that people were overdipping everything to make it look blast white. That was before slabbing, so it was easy to get away with. The same thing is going on today to make vivid toners....probably using old overdipped "blast white" coins as cheap raw material.... It's still caveat emptor.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
10/27/2020 12:30 am
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