Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Hammered Coin ID Help (Id: Duchy Of Liegnitz-Brieg, 15 Kreuzer 1662 Ad)

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 385Next Topic  
New Member

United States
3 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2020  01:36 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jsw2010 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I picked this up today at an estate sale. Any help would be appreciated.



Pillar of the Community
United States
1491 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2020  02:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces112432.html

Bohemian, a variety of this one maybe. With Bregensis to the left of the bust.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
17676 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2020  05:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice work @gc. Looks like it most likely is dated 1662.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
3974 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2020  08:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good work!
As in the link, this coin would normally be attributed as from the Duchy of Liegnitz-Brieg, a part of Silesia (which was a fief of Bohemia).
Coins of Bohemia from this time period usually show the Holy Roman Emperor on the front, whereas coins from the Duchy show the local duke.

This vartiety, with BREGENSIS in the obverse legend, and lacking a mintmaster's mark between the words NOVA and ARGENTEA reverse appears to be very unusual. I cannot find one in the WCN archive., which has dozens of sales of this type.

Edited by tdziemia
10/31/2020 08:59 am
New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2020  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jsw2010 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the help! I would have never figured this out without your help :)
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
3974 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2020  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For anyone who wants to get "down into the weeds" on this, a specific attribution for this coin gets quite difficult ... Unless you have the right catalog (and I do not)

In 1662, three different dukes appeared on the 15 kreuzer coins of Liegnitz-Brieg, and the coins of each were issued under two different mintmasters. So we start with 6 major types, before considering varieties:
George III 1662 (pierced heart symbol between NOVA ARGENTEA)
George III 1662 E W (initials near the eagle's feet; no heart)
Ludwig IV 1662 (heart)
Ludwig IV 1662 E W
Christian 1662 (heart)
Christian 1662 E W

If the portrait and the legend from 12:00-6:00 obverse are intact, there is no problem to determine the duke, but we have neither for this coin. Of the three dukes, Ludwig's hair is relatively flat at the back of his head, but the other two have ornate curls. So I think this is a coin of Ludwig IV. His legend from 12:00 to 6:00 should read D G LUDOVICIUS DVX. I cannot see enough on the OPs coin to confirm this.

If correct, that makes this coin a 15 kreuzer Ludwig IV 1662 EW. I could not find a photo of this date, but here is a 1661 (it is the 3d coin in the link). In addition to the shape of the hair, the vestments down around 7:00 look like a match.
https://www.acsearch.info/search.ht...us=1&order=0

There is still the problem of the legend from 7:00 to 12:00. Normally we have these legends under the mintmaster with the heart symbol:
George III - SIL LIGN & BREG
Ludwig IV - SIL LIG BR & GOL or SIL L B & GOLDB
Christian - SIL LIG BREG & WOL

I still have not found BREGENSIS on any 15 kreuzer coin.

SO, at the least we can confirm this is a Duchy of Liegnitz-Brieg, 15 kreuzer 1662 EW. Maybe someone who is an expert in this place will recognize the specific type.


Edited by tdziemia
10/31/2020 10:21 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1491 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2020  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces135987.html

I'm not 100% sure its a 15 kruzer, but I don't have a good catalog for this either.
Edited by Gincoin43
10/31/2020 1:35 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
3974 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2020  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm pretty sure you are right on the denomination, since it looks like the X in XV below the bust is visible.

If the OP is still checking this thread, maybe we can get the diameter of the coin to confirm (should be about 28 mm).

The only other option is 3 kreuzer, as best I can tell, which I think can be ruled out.

The dynastic complexity got pretty ridiculous in this part of the world in the mid-1600s, with brothers inheriting various bits of a father's realm, and then re-aggregating when one of them died.


New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2020  4:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jsw2010 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin is 30 mm in diameter.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1491 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2020  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
15 kreuzer it is.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
92152 Posts
  Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 385Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.7 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05