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1788 Mexico 8 Reales Shipwreck Coin?

 
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 Posted 11/26/2020  9:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This is a 1788 Mexico 8 Reales coin that I had recently acquired in a coin collection. It sure looks unusual, and my first thought that it was dipped in some kind of acid. I was trying to authenticate it, but some things raised suspicion.
1. The edge of the coin seems to be chipping away, as if there is some sort of heavy plating.
2. The edge design appears to be poorly done or done wrong. I am no expert but this also could've been a "mint" error.
3. The only place on the coin that isn't unusually white, is the crescent moon shape on the obverse. If I place another coin of the same size on the white area, it matches perfectly.

-The coin passes the magnet slide test, and it makes the correct ping sound. Those small tests lead me to believe that is a solid silver coin and not plated.
-*The edge and design of the coin is eaten away on the edge opposite of where the supposed "other coin" rested on it. This could've been salt in the water eating away at the coin where it could've been underwater for a period of time.
-So, I have two questions. Is this coin legitimate? If so, do the clues show that this a shipwreck coin? Post any further ideas or opinions if you have any, and thanks in advance.





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 Posted 11/27/2020  08:00 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello jacrispies and

I'm no expert on the type, but the surfaces look right to me for a shipwreck coin. This is an 8 Reales that I bought (cheaply!) from a reputable London dealer a few years ago with a certificate of authenticity:
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 Posted 11/27/2020  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to CCF. Probably going to need weight and diameter.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 11/27/2020  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The weight is 23.96 grams and the diameter is 38mm.
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 Posted 11/27/2020  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgenn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suspect the date is actually 1783 in line with most of the El Cazador shipwreck examples. The conservation process causes the unusually white appearance. It's not really possible to authenticate due to the loss of detail and weight. The porosity also makes specific gravity a less accurate technique. Without a certificate to associate it with a shipwreck its value will be limited. You'll find many similar examples on ebay.
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 Posted 11/28/2020  11:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Date is indeed 1783... "3" is discernible in the rotated pic, and it's obviously assayer FF.

Undoubtedly from the El Cazador.
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 Posted 11/28/2020  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Check Collects82's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The El Cazador sunk in early 1784 not too far from its destination of New Orleans, and wasn't found until 1993 buy a fisherman trolling the area. His nets snagged and they randomly pulled up a bunch of old Spanish reales. Louisiana was under Spanish control back then and Carlos III sent this ship full of Spanish minted silver reales, much of which was 8R, from Mexico in order to support and stabilize the economy to strengthen Spain's position.

1783 8R of the Mexico mint are among the most common pieces off the wreck, so a 1783 Mo shipwreck 8R is most likely from here. NGC has encapsulated a lot of these too, with a special label certifying the piece of the El Cazadore wreck.

My collection focuses on 1782 dated coins, and I have a few pieces from the wreck from the Mo and Lima mints. I think it's fascinating history and are among my favorite pieces.
My hoard of '82s is up to 204! 218 BC x 1, 118 BC x 3, 18 BC x 1, 82 x 1, 182 x 1, 282 x 2, 382 x 1, 582 x 2, 682 x 1, 782 x 2, 882 x 1, 982 x 4, 1082 x 1 1182 x 8, 1282 x 2, 1382 x 1, 1482 x 5, 1582 x 13, 1682 x 15, 1782 x 57, 1882 x 49, 1982 x 33
Edited by Collects82
11/28/2020 1:45 pm
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 Posted 12/03/2020  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Check colonialjohn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What is also interesting on these El Cazador coins due to seawater corrosion most of the copper has leached OUT of the alloy - these normally have XRF surface reading of 98-99% Ag (silver). Yes there is the silver surface enrichment effect but on non-slavaged coins its generally 92-93% silver readings or just slightly above the KM silver content listed values. Never did SEM/EDS surface micrographs but obviously these coins almost are near 98- 99% silver - at one time tested about a dozen - ALL HAD ELEVATED READINGS THIS HIGH.

John Lorenzo
MNA Member
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